Not happy with a Farnborough policeman

[jimothy]

Driving out of Farnborough on Saturday, along a road that used to be 2 lanes, now is one plus an empty lane that gets used once a week for an empty bus.

Police car comes screaming up behind with his blues and twos going.
He could move into the bus lane and go round us.
Instead he parks a foot from the the future MrsJimothy's rear bumper and flashes his lights.

So the future MrsJimothy moves into the bus lane.

Firstly, why on earth didn't the policeman use the bus lane to go round us?
Secondly, whats the fine for using a bus lane, and would we be liable for it?

[chris d]

jimothy said:

Firstly, why on earth didn't the policeman use the bus lane to go round us? Secondly, whats the fine for using a bus lane, and would we be liable for it?

Being so close to you in the first place is naughty - to put it politely!
The simple reason why he wouldn't undertake you is because, on doing so, your car MAY have - at that point - moved to the left. Who's fault would it be? the Old Bill i.e. undertaking.

Re the bus lane. I would only be concerned about that if it was a Bus Lane with cameras fitted. This is not an uncommon situation causing difficulties for drivers in London.
(Make a written note of the incident should the event rear it's ugly head)

[Dwight VanDriver]

Naughty, naughty Mrs Bennett Jim.

Now I think I am about to astound the Gassing Station but, and I speak nothing but the truth so help me God, but HMG are looking at legislation to make such action of Mrs Bennet an offence of impeding the Emergency service attending an emergency and which will be punishable with fine or 51 weeks in clink.

What you say. Look here:

http://tinyurl.com/pfrqb

Bill currently before Parliament.

Now where does it say what Mrs Bennett did was other than unlawful.

Opens up a new can of worms trying to keep to a apseed limit and at the same time get out of the way of the blues and two's.

......departs forum whistling.....

dvd

[JonRB]

I wouldn't put it past this loony government to make it a fineable offence not to get out of the way of a police vehicle and also a fineable offence to stray into a bus lane.

[mg6b]

Why did Mrs Jimothy get into a position where the police vehicle was able to get so close behind her if it had blues and twos operating?

Copious mirror checks slipped from her armoury by any chance?

>> Edited by mg6b on Monday 6th March 15:23

[Parrot of Doom]

But you're not allowed to drive or park in a bus lane. So what was she supposed to do? Its already recognised that you cannot break the law to allow an emergency vehicle to pass.

[turbobloke]

It has already been established in Court like PoD says - chap hears and sees blues'n'twos while at front of traffic light queue, moves forward and to the side to allow smooth passage and triggers ATS camera, gets ticket, fights it, loses - that you stay put as emergency drivers are trained to make progress under such circumstances so now they got us both ways, move outta the way (new law) kerching, stay put (old law) kerching.

Absolutely fg marvellous

[omegac]

jimothy said:

Police car comes screaming up behind with his blues and twos going. He could move into the bus lane and go round us. Instead he parks a foot from the the future MrsJimothy's rear bumper and flashes his lights.

He should have been going at a speed whereby the noise arrives before he does, giving your missus time to react, he should then assess if there is a reaction, if not, he has the option to take a bit of the bus lane, but no expemtion to do so, or go offside. The foot from the bumper may have been a misjudgement, as ideally he wants to be at a distance whereby all his warning equipment can be seen, ie headlamp flashers too.

[711]

mg6b said:

Why did Mrs Jimothy get into a position where the police vehicle was able to get so close behind her if it had blues and twos operating? Copious mirror checks slipped from her armoury by any chance? >> Edited by mg6b on Monday 6th March 15:23

Humour in your post noted, but at risk of percieved sense of humour failure, surely we don't have to point out that any car following too close indicates lack of judgement or ability?

Sadly, this would cause me to take more time in getting out of the way, not because of temper or a lack of desire (certainly don't want irate pursuit drivers up me chuff ), but lack of confidence that a dive up the inside won't ocurr during my attempt to move over?



Not meant to be a pop at the police driver, who will probably make far less mistakes per mile than I do, even if he / she was wrong in this case. Police driver probably also as frustrated as the rest of us regarding loony convictions on bus lanes and cameras, etc

>> Edited by 711 on Monday 6th March 18:20

[funkihamsta]

So at a red light...you dont move otherwise you get a fine and points, as has been discussed here before and instead get fined/jailed for obstruction.

Anyone seen Brazil?

[flemke]

chris d said:

The simple reason why he wouldn't undertake you is because, on doing so, your car MAY have - at that point - moved to the left. Who's fault would it be? the Old Bill i.e. undertaking.

Chris,

Is it not true that there is no law that prohibits undertaking? If undertaking is done badly and/or results in RTA, then undertaker may be guilty of D. W. D. Care, or Careless D., but, if done safely, there's no offence?
Therefore, officer would only need to be confident that civilian has noticed him and is holding station. Then officer could readily get past via bus lane.
I'm not trying to be simplistic, but isn't that assessment - that civilians ahead have taken note of B&2s - what police drivers need to make every time they're on a run?

[chris d]

flemke said:

Is it not true that there is no law that prohibits undertaking? If undertaking is done badly and/or results in RTA, then undertaker may be guilty of D. W. D. Care, or Careless D., but, if done safely, there's no offence?

My post indicated that the car in front 'might' move to the left. You can never be 100% sure. Yes, the under-taker would be the guilty one. (It's a bit like the insecure load on a lorry. The offence of 'dangerous condition' relates to the fact that it might come off.)
It's just not the done thing when there is room on the left - although I accept the problems with bus lanes - those with cameras in them anyway.

Picking up on comments made elsewhere, what we like to see when we are 'on a shout' with everything going, is people using their mirrors! I have so often been moving at speed along a straight bit of road (1/2 mile +) and the driver in front doesn't see us until we're right behind them!! Then what do they do? Slam on their anchors in panic.

[Zod]

omegac said:

jimothy said: Police car comes screaming up behind with his blues and twos going. He could move into the bus lane and go round us. Instead he parks a foot from the the future MrsJimothy's rear bumper and flashes his lights. He should have been going at a speed whereby the noise arrives before he does, giving your missus time to react, he should then assess if there is a reaction, if not, he has the option to take a bit of the bus lane, but no expemtion to do so, or go offside. The foot from the bumper may have been a misjudgement, as ideally he wants to be at a distance whereby all his warning equipment can be seen, ie headlamp flashers too.

[pedant mode]Well, unless he was travelling in excess of the speed of sound, then he will havwe been travelling at such a speed.[/pedant mode]

[r6blacky]

Would indicating right to signal that you had seen them be of any use therefore enabling them to pass on the left in the knowledge that you aren't going to pull across them?

[omegac]

Zod said:

[pedant mode]Well, unless he was travelling in excess of the speed of sound, then he will havwe been travelling at such a speed.[/pedant mode]

To clarify, it means, give them time to react, ie whizzing up behind them is not conducive to giving them time to react.

[omegac]

r6blacky said:

Would indicating right to signal that you had seen them be of any use therefore enabling them to pass on the left in the knowledge that you aren't going to pull across them?

It would be a "positive reaction" which is always good, ie I have seen you, it would still be for the driver to make a decision based on the worst though, ie walking pace past on the left.

[jimothy]

mg6b said:

Why did Mrs Jimothy get into a position where the police vehicle was able to get so close behind her if it had blues and twos operating? Copious mirror checks slipped from her armoury by any chance? >> Edited by mg6b on Monday 6th March 15:23

We saw the police car some way behind on the approach to a roundabout. We took the first exit of the roundabout, onto the road with the bus lane not knowing if the police car was going to be following us or going off at a different exit. He was right up behind us within 10 yards of coming off the roundabout. Observation was there, but obviously you can't monitor a roundabout behind you for what exit a police car may or may not be taking. If it had been a few hundred yards later, we would have been past the bus lane and there wuold have been no problems.

[drumsterphil]

I work in Farnborough and have to contend on a daily basis with the waste of money that is this particluar bus lane. You don't say where in Farnborough you where but if it's the section going from Kingsmead, past the police station entrance to the roundabout then you have my sympathy. All the drivers around here have now completely ignored the fact it's a bus lane and use it as a normal road due to the bottleneck it has created in trying to get onto the roundabout.

[telecat]

Saw something on the Local "Real Story" indicating that West Yorkshire Traffic Police would rather switch off their Blues and Twos if they consider that it would cause a problem ahead of them. I.E. when approaching a Red signal at a busy Junction then re-engage them as the lights turn green.

[ipsg.glf]

I am fairly sure that the new proposed offence would not apply to circumstances where a road user would have to commit an illegal manoeuvre in order to avoid the emergency vehicle.