Tuesday 18th April 2006

Cameras increase crashes: official

Government figures reveal speed camera reality

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Cameras mean crashes

Official figures obtained by a newspaper and reported by ITV reveal that a Gatso speed camera installed at road works on the M62 has been responsible for over £1 million in fines. This follows Transport Research Laboratory (TRL) report, TRL595 (see link below), which indicates that such cameras are likely to increase injury crashes by 55 per cent.

Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign said: "Speed cameras on motorway roadworks actually increase danger. A report by TRL shows clearly that roadworks with cameras had much higher crash rates. The Highways Agency is ignoring the science that they commissioned and apparently prefers blind and unjustified faith in speed cameras.

"Speed cameras increase danger because of the way that they alter driver behaviour. They cause traffic to bunch and some drivers to panic brake. They also cause excessive concentration on the speedo at the expense of concentration on the road ahead.

"But speed cameras also undermine our road safety system in subtler ways. They damage the police public relationship, and imply a series of false safety messages. Drivers are learning to trust the speedometer as a barometer of safety when in fact of course it is no such thing.

"We won't get road safety back on track until the government admits its dangerous mistake and scraps speed cameras."

Links

• TRL595 analysis
• Safe Speed

[GTRene]

Indeed, good thread, speed is not the danger, it can even safe live's!! see firemanscars and ambulance/medical cars... and ofcorse when I'm not on time at home my wife kills me so speed is fine, no serious...speed is not the real thing, its dangerous driving or mistakes or people not watching in front on the road or can't addapt on circomstances...
Better get away those speed camera's and instal safety camera's(video) and when you see someone is a real dangerous driver, then act and get him/her at home and fine him/her with proof of the dangerous driving on video.
Drive safe, and have fun driving...and where roads aloud drive the way you find yourself relaxt driving but ofcorse also keep an eye on others driving around...its a lot respect and common sense?
We need some drivers pleasure, also makes us come better throug the day, and makes us more happy so also good for working and healty so don't kill it with all restrictions! or bills or points on the license just for speeding on a empty road!
GTRene

>> Edited by GTRene on Tuesday 18th April 11:27

[turbobloke]

plucas1 said:

Sorry, disagree in this instance - cameras in roadworks are a legitimate use in my book (about the only one too!).

It may seem that way but a three year study of motorway roadworks with and without cameras undertaken by the Transport Research Labs (TRL 595) showed that the presence of GATSOs or SPECS had no statistically significant impact on worker personal injury accidents, but increased injury crashes in m-way roadworks by up to 55%. Sometimes perception and reality are different.

[turbobloke]

Whoa, where'd that post go ?!

[james_j]

"...A report by TRL shows clearly that roadworks with cameras had much higher crash rates. The Highways Agency is ignoring the science that they commissioned and apparently prefers blind and unjustified faith in speed cameras..."

It's been said before, but the truth will out...eventually.

Just think how incredibly stupid are the people who are willing to believe cameras are the route to safety "because they must work surely if they make you drive slower" and even worse, bordering on criminal, are the people who implement the cameras when they must know safety will not be improved but worsened.

What could be the reason? Revenue seems to be the only reason remaining.

However, with honours being bought, wars being started on a lie, millions on the NHS flowing into a black hole and other such serious matters being swept under the carpet, I don't hold out much hope for an investigation into the whole revenue camera industry.

[dinkel]

I drive up and down from my home to work every day (sad innit), and since the ammount of camera's (traffic-control, flashers, seatbelt control etc.) has increased, the nervousness has increased too. People get frantic when they see a cam and start braking and looking at the damn thing and the damn thing only. Completely forgetting what roadsafety is all about: anticipating on the actual situation, they forget to do so and almost hit me a few times . . . it's nuts and dangerous. Move those damn things!

[unobtainum]

And what are we going to do about this governments refusal to accept its own findings? And has been said, dont start on about the NHS, stealth taxes, pensions, red tape etc etc etc.

Anyone, and I mean anyone who votes for this bunch of liars needs shooting. Come election time we all must remember what this lot have done.....

[havoc]

'Morally bankrupt' is the only way to describe them - failing to publish or provide in any freely-available form to the public the results of a study into road-safety that doesn't say what they wanted it to is just appaling.

How do we get this into the wider domain?

[andy.shent]

Speaking as a professional (LGV 1) driver, I see the problem caused by speed camara,s Take the M1 at Lutterworth these last few months, narrow lanes and LGV,s restricted to the inside lane, most frustrating when sitting at 40 MPH on cruise control to catch up with MR & Mrs full frontal labotamy doing 35MPH and we cannot over take them!!!! as already stated this causes "bunching" and frustration,

Also take Albert Village in South Derbyshire (I wish someone would) two speed camara,s 1/2 a mile apart at either end of the village. with a cross roads in the middle, did'nt stop the smash last week at the cross roads.. so what use are they... I am in total agreement with video camara,s as mister numpty brain who veers from one lane to the next(even tho there has been signs for the last mile telling him which lane to take)should be fined £1000 and banned for his dangerous and reckless actions, The government would still get its palm greased and could "afford" to cut back on the camera,s that cause the problems.

They have even banned firearms in this country so we can't use them to take them out! mind you tho, you can pump 6 bullits in to an inoccent brazilian and get away with it????

>> Edited by andy.shent on Tuesday 18th April 14:04

[Davi]

havoc said:

How do we get this into the wider domain?

I've been trying to work out a way on that for ages, I hate the british apathy that lets the gov.m get away with this sort of sh!te, but must admit when I tried to put an action, I just sat there thinking "ummmmmmmm... errrrrr" - I know it will sound incredibly sad, but about the only thing I could come up with is a chain mail type email - you know, please read, and send to everyone in your address book, blah blah blah.

Of course how to get anyone to do something with the new found knowledge is a different kettle of fish...

[apache]

turbobloke said:

plucas1 said: Sorry, disagree in this instance - cameras in roadworks are a legitimate use in my book (about the only one too!). It may seem that way but a three year study of motorway roadworks with and without cameras undertaken by the Transport Research Labs (TRL 595) showed that the presence of GATSOs or SPECS had no statistically significant impact on worker personal injury accidents, but increased injury crashes in m-way roadworks by up to 55%. Sometimes perception and reality are different.

In my experience of driving up and down the M11, the only times I saw any accidents at all where when the cameras were erected for the roadworks. That is hard fact

[peteA]

dinkel said:

I drive up and down from my home to work every day (sad innit), and since the ammount of camera's (traffic-control, flashers, seatbelt control etc.) has increased, the nervousness has increased too. People get frantic when they see a cam and start braking and looking at the damn thing and the damn thing only. Completely forgetting what roadsafety is all about: anticipating on the actual situation, they forget to do so and almost hit me a few times . . . it's nuts and dangerous. Move those damn things!

Dont mind cameras near schools, housing estates, etc...but, motorways, etc No, No, No....speed is not the danger in itself, its where and when as we should be able to judge this ourselves. There are always going to be idiots and those who simply cant make the correct decisions (too young and or in-experienced) - we should be able to reley on the police to catch these people - but, there are less and less of them and more and more cameras making decisions without discretion.

Just travelled from 40 or 50 mile north of london to newcastle on sunday up the A1 - generally excellent, set the cruise control @ 90 and made good, safe progress. But, why were there 40mph signs at roadworks that had no one working on them? why coundn't one of them, last thursday, cover the signs for the bank holiday weekend? A sign at the start said 'speed limit for worker safety', great, no problem....but, if they wan't us to respect their safety why can't they respect the hundreds of thousands of people passing the roadworks over a busy bank holiday weekend when no-one, and i mean no-one was there!

problem with blaming the current government is that they are all as bad as each other - haven't heard the other parties stating 'we will remove all speeding cameras as we feel they are un-safe'...feel a soap box moment coming on...the birth of a new political party....zzz zzz zzz



>> Edited by peteA on Tuesday 18th April 15:51

[Peter Ward]

Driving through Norfolk today I noticed that some of the camera warning signs have the wording "Police Speed Cameras" or "Police Enforcement Cameras". Thinking back, I don't think Norfolk is alone in this.

No wonder the police are getting it in the neck when they allow their name to be used by the partnerships in that way. What with this and the police crest on NIPs, anyone normal would think it's the police operating the partnerships.....

[Road Angel A]

I disagree with speed limits, and think people should just get done harshly when accidents do actually happen. most people have a conscience and a brain to stop them driving past a primary school at a high speed, but I have to say its amazing how thick people are when driving on motorways - they drive so close behind you in heavy traffic then when it all comes to a grinding halt come skidding up your backside looking all so confused. I always ensure lots of room infront so that I can give the guys lots of room for braking behind too - I think people need to be more aware and intelligent the way they drive. Ugh, soapboxes here we come, I really think that less people should be allowed to drive and those that can, have passed stringent car handling tests and general awareness tests.... etc moan moan.....

[peteA]

Road Angel A said:

I disagree with speed limits, and think people should just get done harshly when accidents do actually happen. most people have a conscience and a brain to stop them driving past a primary school at a high speed, but I have to say its amazing how thick people are when driving on motorways - they drive so close behind you in heavy traffic then when it all comes to a grinding halt come skidding up your backside looking all so confused. I always ensure lots of room infront so that I can give the guys lots of room for braking behind too - I think people need to be more aware and intelligent the way they drive. Ugh, soapboxes here we come, I really think that less people should be allowed to drive and those that can, have passed stringent car handling tests and general awareness tests.... etc moan moan.....

how many times, when you leave a safe gap in front of you, do you get the numpty behind driving up your exhaust pipe annoyed that the gap is too big and he could be 2 car lengths further up the road!

[nickjm]

Davi said:

havoc said: How do we get this into the wider domain? I've been trying to work out a way on that for ages, I hate the british apathy that lets the gov.m get away with this sort of sh!te, but must admit when I tried to put an action, I just sat there thinking "ummmmmmmm... errrrrr" - I know it will sound incredibly sad, but about the only thing I could come up with is a chain mail type email - you know, please read, and send to everyone in your address book, blah blah blah. Of course how to get anyone to do something with the new found knowledge is a different kettle of fish...

The story has been on Radio 1's newsbeat today. Although there's been no mention of the increase in accidents, just the amount of money that has been 'earned'

[viper_larry]

I don't like speed cameras in road works, but without them, people would drive through @ 80mph regardless, I've seen it all too often. Then these people are typically the ones that complain. If people showed respectful speed through the roadworks, there would be no need.

[martaay]

nickjm said:

Davi said: havoc said: How do we get this into the wider domain? I've been trying to work out a way on that for ages, I hate the british apathy that lets the gov.m get away with this sort of sh!te, but must admit when I tried to put an action, I just sat there thinking "ummmmmmmm... errrrrr" - I know it will sound incredibly sad, but about the only thing I could come up with is a chain mail type email - you know, please read, and send to everyone in your address book, blah blah blah. Of course how to get anyone to do something with the new found knowledge is a different kettle of fish... The story has been on Radio 1's newsbeat today. Although there's been no mention of the increase in accidents, just the amount of money that has been 'earned'

classic P.C. BBC

[Mr Whippy]

Yep, just had the money earned email sent to me at work by a bit of a nay sayer with respect to cars and such like.

The SafeSpeed analyis has proved interesting reading to them Though some are finding the slogan "Let's make speed cameras as unacceptable as drink driving" a bit of a laugh. Though in reality it's right, it's maybe a bit too extreme for those who have been affected by the scamerati propoganda to swallow all at once

Just proves though, how the news gets spread so quickly, yet they miss the biggest point which is that they are actually causing MORE accidents too!

Dave

>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Tuesday 18th April 16:34

[Davi]

I've emailed them and asked to point it out in future bulletins

[havoc]

Davi said:

I've emailed them and asked to point it out in future bulletins

Good luck! Bet they ignore it, as it's not from a 'verified source'!!!