Scots Law - question on forming a prior opinion of speed

[miniandy]

Hello.

I have a quick question. Let's say that a driver is exceeding the speed limit on a standard A road, and passes a police vehicle going in the opposite direction with two police officers on board. The driver notices them (obviously) and adjusts his speed accordingly. At no point is a speed rating obtained of the driver's vehicle by means of vascar/laser/radar, as the police vehicle is a police van, and does not have the equipment.

Now let's say that the police van turns around, and proceeds to stop the driver. Can he be prosecuted for speeding, and if so, how would it be measured? As I understand it, two officers can verify that a vehicle is speeding. How does this differ if the police vehicle has no speed measuring devices to back this up?

I'd be interested to know.

Cheers

[vonhosen]

miniandy said:

Hello. I have a quick question. Let's say that a driver is exceeding the speed limit on a standard A road, and passes a police vehicle going in the opposite direction with two police officers on board. The driver notices them (obviously) and adjusts his speed accordingly. At no point is a speed rating obtained of the driver's vehicle by means of vascar/laser/radar, as the police vehicle is a police van, and does not have the equipment. Now let's say that the police van turns around, and proceeds to stop the driver. Can he be prosecuted for speeding, and if so, how would it be measured? As I understand it, two officers can verify that a vehicle is speeding. How does this differ if the police vehicle has no speed measuring devices to back this up? I'd be interested to know. Cheers

You can be convicted on the evidence of two Police officers without any measurement device.

For a speeding offence in the above circumstances the opinion of the 2nd officer is what is corroborating the opinion of the 1st. The 2nd officer's opinion acts similar to how the speedo corroborates the 1st officers opinion when there is only one officer.

[miniandy]

That was my inclination. Can you advise how they would proceed? Would they simply say "you are being prosecuted for the offence of excess speed" or would they state what speed they estimated?

Cheers

[DeMolay]

I would say the chances of prosecution are next to zero.

The "evidence" would be laughed out of court. Two officers there may well be, but travelling in the opposite direction without any measurement devices? I don't think so. Even Lionel Hutz could secure a not guilty verdict with that one.

[miniandy]

Any other views on this topic?

Cheers

[jwo]

Going in the opposite direction - not a chance! Say both vehicles were doing 60mph - speed differential of 120mph. Now if oncoming car was doing 80mph, speed diff would be 140mph. How could one tell (especially if on A road with no other points of reference).

[justinp1]

jwo said:

Going in the opposite direction - not a chance! Say both vehicles were doing 60mph - speed differential of 120mph. Now if oncoming car was doing 80mph, speed diff would be 140mph. How could one tell (especially if on A road with no other points of reference).

I agree. Chance of conviction if you defended the case properly is pretty much zero.

Chance of the the officers trying anyway incase you might sign the FPN and dont know your rights - a lot higher...

[AndyAudi]

I had a simlar occurence last week at about 80ish, I got a flash of the headlights but didn't bother to slow down (road ahead clear) I was once told the fact you were brakeing helped to indicate you were travelling at excess speed. Is this a myth, should I have slowed up (and made it easier for them if they had turned)?

[miniandy]

Thanks for the replies. Here's another 'what if?'

What if they do come after you, is there anything they could charge you with? Due care perhaps?

Cheers