Newbury traf plod - top marks

[mph999]

At last, a traff plod obeying the limit, pulled away at lights, traff plod to my right in other lane, me on inside of bend so opened up a bit of distance and they dropped in behind, instead of flying past.

... could always have been that they wanted to admire my Mini ....

[GHW]

... or they were looking for a reason to nick you?

I've had poor experiences with plod in Newbury before. A couple of years ago, en-route to the start of a road rally in a Mk1 XR2 (which belonged to my mate/navigator in the passenger seat) a pair of BiB observed me lapping a roundabout once (waiting for the car following us to catch up), so they followed us right on our arses for a mile or so through Newbury before pulling us over and giving us a talking to - apparently we'd been driving suspiciously and he wanted to check our documents. We hadt everything on us except for the insurance document (I'd been been put on the insurance the day before so there was no certificate yet), so BiB #1 starts writing my producer - when he realises it's my mates car, he gets BiB #2 to walk around to the passenger door and write out a producer for my mate in the passenger seat, even though he'd not been driving the car and never needed any of the documentation that was requested!!!!

When we turned up to the station in Southampton to produce the documents, the very helpful man at the desk explained to us that the two Newbury chaps were obviously completely clueless and had no right giving my passenger a producer - he even offered to help us write an official complaint!

[mg6b]

GHW said:

... even though he'd not been driving the car and never needed any of the documentation that was requested!!!!

Pardon your ignorance!
He did. It was your friends car. You had no insurance to produce and your friend was permitting you to drive the car that belonged to him and not you.
Permitting no insurance is an offence. They needed to see your passenger friends insurance to check that he was insured and that there was cover or not for you on that policy!

So. It looks like they needed to give you both one (a producer)

GHW said:

When we turned up to the station in Southampton to produce the documents, the very helpful man at the desk explained to us that the two Newbury chaps were obviously completely clueless and had no right giving my passenger a producer - he even offered to help us write an official complaint!

It is obvious from this account that the man at the station in Southampton is completely clueless and you should make a complaint about his lack of knowledge and giving you duff information!

They had every right and reason to give both of you a producer

[GHW]

The point still stands that he did not have to produce his insurance, driving license, MOT, etc to the BiB when he was a passenger - and they did ask for all of these things, not just the insurance.

[vonhosen]

GHW said:

The point still stands that he did not have to produce his insurance, driving license, MOT, etc to the BiB when he was a passenger - and they did ask for all of these things, not just the insurance.

He does have to produce his MOT & Insurance on request, as the owner of a car on a road. The fact he is a passenger is irrelevant, infact he wouldn't even have to be in the car for them to be required, it could be parked up & unattended for them to still be required.

As for his licence, perhaps they suspected you didn't have a full licence & they wanted to see his to see whether he could lawfully supervise you if turns out you didn't.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 4th June 15:33

[GHW]

OK, you guys clearly do know more than me on these subjects, so just humour me for a little while so I understand everything...

He could, quite legally, have no insurance or driving license - with me in charge of the vehicle, isn't it just me who requires insurance and entitlement to drive? Theoretically, he could keep the thing sat in a garage all its life and just let me drive it every now and again?

If he'd turned up at the police station in 7 days time and failed to produce these documents (as the producer required him to), then he'd have been in deep trouble, right?

[Dwight Vandriver]

GHW said:

The point still stands that he did not have to produce his insurance, driving license, MOT, etc to the BiB when he was a passenger - and they did ask for all of these things, not just the insurance.

As VH outlines Bib can ask:

a person who a Constable has reason to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use of a vehicle on a road.

Sections 164 (DL) 165 (Ins and TC) Road Traffic Act 1988

As passenger owner he is included - Front desk operative wrong.

dvd

[vonhosen]

GHW said:

OK, you guys clearly do know more than me on these subjects, so just humour me for a little while so I understand everything... He could, quite legally, have no insurance or driving license - with me in charge of the vehicle, isn't it just me who requires insurance and entitlement to drive? Theoretically, he could keep the thing sat in a garage all its life and just let me drive it every now and again? If he'd turned up at the police station in 7 days time and failed to produce these documents (as the producer required him to), then he'd have been in deep trouble, right?

He'd have to have insurance at sometime in order to get a tax disc.

If he had a MOT, no insurance & no licence, provided you had insurance that covered you to drive it & you had a full licence then there would be no offence. As soon as you got out the car & it was on a road then he would commit the offence of no insurance (as your insurance only would cover you while driving it.)

None of this of course stops Police asking to see his docs, because his car is on a road. If he is given a producer & fails to produce he commits an offence.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 4th June 16:14

[GHW]

Ok then, thanks.

Since the producer required that he show everything at the station (all the boxes were ticked), and he'd been unable to show them at the station 7 days later (even though at the time we were pulled he didn't need them), then would he have commited an offence?

[vonhosen]

GHW said:

Ok then, thanks. Since the producer required that he show everything at the station (all the boxes were ticked), and he'd been unable to show them at the station 7 days later (even though at the time we were pulled he didn't need them), then would he have commited an offence?

What can't he, couldn't he produce within 7 days & why ?

[GHW]

Thankfully, he could produce everything they asked for. However, (theoretical situation) if he'd not had a driving license and the producer required him to show it, what would have happened?

[vonhosen]

GHW said:

Thankfully, he could produce everything they asked for. However, (theoretical situation) if he'd not had a driving license and the producer required him to show it, what would have happened?

If he didn't have one & you had a full one = nothing.
If he didn't have one & you didn't have a full one , you'd get done for driving unsupervised/other than in accordance with a licence & he'd get done for permitting that offence.

[GHW]

Thanks, so ... (aiding my understanding again) if a producer asks for a bunch of documents, you can 'get away' with not producing them, providing that they weren't actually needed when the producer was written?

[vonhosen]

GHW said:

Thanks, so ... (aiding my understanding again) if a producer asks for a bunch of documents, you can 'get away' with not producing them, providing that they weren't actually needed when the producer was written?

The person seeing your documents at the station may formally report you for not producing what was on the producer. They send the report of what was produced (or not) to the originating officer who will have both your producers & what was actually produced. From that the origintaing officer will know what offences were committed & to summons for (if any).

The fact you were formally reported at the Police station for not producing is of little consequence & doesn't mean you will be summonsed. Any summons would be sorted through the originating officer & they obviously wouldn't summons where, for say no insurance by the owner, because the driver had it.

If you have the documents it's easier of course to just to produce them.

Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 4th June 19:21

[mph999]

GHW said:

... or they were looking for a reason to nick you?

Yep, that was in the back of my mind ... lets hope not. To be fair, nothing I did would have given them reason to watch me so I'm hopeful they where just setting a good example.

M

[GHW]

Thanks VH, most informative.