Reducing speed limits at accident blackspots
Discussion
Some speed limits are supposedly lowered due to accident blackspots.
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
reducing speed limits is
1 the cheapest option
2 what the nimby's want
so when doing the reduced speed in these areas that are now clogged at 20 mph due the to road not being the right capacity in the first place dont let these people out stick to the rules you have right of way
waste their time for a change
1 the cheapest option
2 what the nimby's want
so when doing the reduced speed in these areas that are now clogged at 20 mph due the to road not being the right capacity in the first place dont let these people out stick to the rules you have right of way
waste their time for a change
It's an excuse to clog the roads up.
In the entire history of motoring, there can't be many stretches of road where a fatal accident hasn't occurred at some time, so these fools will naturally try to justify a camera every few yards and a reduced speed limit using that as an excuse.
The idiots, the weasels.
In the entire history of motoring, there can't be many stretches of road where a fatal accident hasn't occurred at some time, so these fools will naturally try to justify a camera every few yards and a reduced speed limit using that as an excuse.
The idiots, the weasels.
gregwatson said:
Some speed limits are supposedly lowered due to accident blackspots.
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
We already have all those signs.
vonhosen said:
gregwatson said:
Some speed limits are supposedly lowered due to accident blackspots.
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
We already have all those signs.
A rather sweeping statement VH. I can think of 2 locations near me where mobile cameras now operate and no extra signage has been installed warning me of danger...
Often, the "reason" for the accidents isn't something you can sign.
There's a bit of road near me which had a terrible accident record, mainly because of people doing stupid things (trailer twice weight of tow car, then lorry with disconnected trailer brakes, then bus overtaking over blind crest, that sort of thing - those are only 3 fatals that I remember from 20-odd years ago). Every bend had a "bend" sign. There were "hidden crest" signs. The white lines were extra-reflective. Everything you could think of.
And people still kept falling off the road, for entirely stupid reasons.
You can't put up two bend signs for one bend. You can't put up a sign that says "caution this is an accident blackspot because lots of a
holes use it".
People who crash, blame everyone except themselves. Sometimes they are right. Often they are not. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of those around them and not think that a road is safe just because nobody has put up a sign telling them it isn't. Or because they haven't crashed on it yet.
Somebody said earlier that speed limits are a cop-out. I agree, I think that lowering the speed limit should be the very last resort. But if you as a professional are responsible for road safety and muppets keep spreading themselves over the landscape, you HAVE TO do something about it. Unfortunately, if nothing else works, then at least lowering the speed limit means that they (or whoever they hit) might be going a bit slower so might not be hurt as badly. But only after everything else has failed.
Unfortunately, there are some whose imagination doesn't extend to a proper exploration of what the "everything else" options are.
There's a bit of road near me which had a terrible accident record, mainly because of people doing stupid things (trailer twice weight of tow car, then lorry with disconnected trailer brakes, then bus overtaking over blind crest, that sort of thing - those are only 3 fatals that I remember from 20-odd years ago). Every bend had a "bend" sign. There were "hidden crest" signs. The white lines were extra-reflective. Everything you could think of.
And people still kept falling off the road, for entirely stupid reasons.
You can't put up two bend signs for one bend. You can't put up a sign that says "caution this is an accident blackspot because lots of a
holes use it". People who crash, blame everyone except themselves. Sometimes they are right. Often they are not. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of those around them and not think that a road is safe just because nobody has put up a sign telling them it isn't. Or because they haven't crashed on it yet.
Somebody said earlier that speed limits are a cop-out. I agree, I think that lowering the speed limit should be the very last resort. But if you as a professional are responsible for road safety and muppets keep spreading themselves over the landscape, you HAVE TO do something about it. Unfortunately, if nothing else works, then at least lowering the speed limit means that they (or whoever they hit) might be going a bit slower so might not be hurt as badly. But only after everything else has failed.
Unfortunately, there are some whose imagination doesn't extend to a proper exploration of what the "everything else" options are.
vonhosen said:
gregwatson said:
Some speed limits are supposedly lowered due to accident blackspots.
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
Would it not be more useful to have some sort of sign indicating what the hazard is, rather than just dropping the speed limit - which may well be ignored by people who can't see the hazard?
For example - the Hog's Back (A31) has had its limit reduced. I drive that road a lot, and as well as being an uneven surface it can get iced up in winter. I assume this is the reason for the accidents it suffers. So why on earth not put up a sign warning that it gets icy in winter??? Wouldn't that make sense?
Warning: danger of ice on road - that would certainly slow people down
Warning: concealed junction
Warning: school ahead
Surely signs of this sort would alert drivers as well as justify any speed limit drops, rather than just annoy them??
We already have all those signs.
we used to.....the pikeys have taken to nicking the damn things
tvrgit said:
People who crash, blame everyone except themselves. Sometimes they are right. Often they are not. People need to take responsibility for their own safety and the safety of those around them and not think that a road is safe just because nobody has put up a sign telling them it isn't. Or because they haven't crashed on it yet.
tvrgit said:
...Somebody said earlier that speed limits are a cop-out. I agree, I think that lowering the speed limit should be the very last resort. But if you as a professional are responsible for road safety and muppets keep spreading themselves over the landscape, you HAVE TO do something about it. Unfortunately, if nothing else works, then at least lowering the speed limit means that they (or whoever they hit) might be going a bit slower so might not be hurt as badly. But only after everything else has failed.
Unfortunately, there are some whose imagination doesn't extend to a proper exploration of what the "everything else" options are.
Unfortunately, there are some whose imagination doesn't extend to a proper exploration of what the "everything else" options are.
Yes. Unfortunately I get the feeling that it's not just a lack of imagination that prevents proper exploration of other options, but diktats from above that state that anything that costs money should automatically be ruled out. That way, every problem looks like a nail and you have just the one tool left.
I think some people here are missing the point.
tvrgit - I agree. But I wasn't talking about roads where accidents occurring are purely down to stupid driving. I'm talking about "accident blackspots", a phrase normally used to descibe a section of road where there is some feature of the road or the surroundings which is responsible for a number of accidents. And which - one assumes - is the justification for reducing the speed limit in the interests of safety.
Sorry - where on the A31 are the new signs that were erected when the speed limit was lowered, indicating the nature of the hazard that warranted the speed limit change?
Just lowering the limit, with no explanation, does nothing except irritate drivers and encourage them to speed. Telling them WHY the limit has been lowered would probably reduce accidents.
tvrgit - I agree. But I wasn't talking about roads where accidents occurring are purely down to stupid driving. I'm talking about "accident blackspots", a phrase normally used to descibe a section of road where there is some feature of the road or the surroundings which is responsible for a number of accidents. And which - one assumes - is the justification for reducing the speed limit in the interests of safety.
Von said:
We already have all those signs.
Sorry - where on the A31 are the new signs that were erected when the speed limit was lowered, indicating the nature of the hazard that warranted the speed limit change?
Just lowering the limit, with no explanation, does nothing except irritate drivers and encourage them to speed. Telling them WHY the limit has been lowered would probably reduce accidents.
Edited by gregwatson on Monday 26th June 19:49
gregwatson said:
Von said:
We already have all those signs.
Sorry - where on the A31 are the new signs that were erected when the speed limit was lowered, indicating the nature of the hazard that warranted the speed limit change?
Just lowering the limit, with no explanation, does nothing except irritate drivers and encourage them to speed. Telling them WHY the limit has been lowered would probably reduce accidents.
Are there any junction signs at all on the A31 ?
Perhaps it's not a case of new signs being needed because the limit has been lowered, but instead a limit being lowered because people are not reacting to the existing signs/hazards.
gregwatson said:
I think some people here are missing the point.
tvrgit - I agree. But I wasn't talking about roads where accidents occurring are purely down to stupid driving. I'm talking about "accident blackspots", a phrase normally used to descibe a section of road where there is some feature of the road or the surroundings which is responsible for a number of accidents. And which - one assumes - is the justification for reducing the speed limit in the interests of safety.
tvrgit - I agree. But I wasn't talking about roads where accidents occurring are purely down to stupid driving. I'm talking about "accident blackspots", a phrase normally used to descibe a section of road where there is some feature of the road or the surroundings which is responsible for a number of accidents. And which - one assumes - is the justification for reducing the speed limit in the interests of safety.
Ah but the point is that the term "accident blackspot" is bandied about wherever accidents happen. Very few accidents are the fault of the road. If they were, then every driver would have an accident. Most occur because a driver or other road user has made a mistake. The road I mentioned in my earlier reply was an "accident blackspot". It was, in the eyes of the media, the most dangerous road in Scotland. So were 2 others in my area and countless others across the country.
Very very few of the "accidents" that gave it that reputation were the fault of the road. Most of them were the result of very silly mistakes by people who should have known better - most of them local and therefore probably well aware of the "killer road" that was being bandied about at the time.
Reducing the speed limt doesn't necessarily reduce the risk of making a mistake - it does however reduce the possible severity.
The difference between "accident blackspot" and "place where some people do stupid things" is a very blurred one.
vonhosen said:
Are there any junction signs at all on the A31 ?
Perhaps it's not a case of new signs being needed because the limit has been lowered, but instead a limit being lowered because people are not reacting to the existing signs/hazards.
Perhaps the road needs re-engineering? Or is it a case of dream on?
vonhosen said:
gregwatson said:
Von said:
We already have all those signs.
Sorry - where on the A31 are the new signs that were erected when the speed limit was lowered, indicating the nature of the hazard that warranted the speed limit change?
Just lowering the limit, with no explanation, does nothing except irritate drivers and encourage them to speed. Telling them WHY the limit has been lowered would probably reduce accidents.
Are there any junction signs at all on the A31 ?
Perhaps it's not a case of new signs being needed because the limit has been lowered, but instead a limit being lowered because people are not reacting to the existing signs/hazards.
You know what VH (don't take this personal, it's not a dig at you), I would believe it. If that was the advice from a real road traffic engineer and not from some car hating government or council department
. And in these days of spin, i will believe it's by the latter. Atb Derek.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff