Waste of time?
Discussion
Got my summons (BiB pulled me at 110mph on the M4), pleaded guilty by post (I honestly have no defence), and just received a letter post-hearing asking me down for a second hearing to give me the opportunity to "explain why I shouldn't be disqualified".
I'm not sure what to say really. I have no defence, I admitted guilt (saving them and the BiB court time), yet they're insisting on wasting my time and theirs to drag me 80 miles out of London and stand there while they inevitably ban me.
Any recommendations on what I could / should do when I get there? Gonna post on pepipoo.com too..
Cheers!
I'm not sure what to say really. I have no defence, I admitted guilt (saving them and the BiB court time), yet they're insisting on wasting my time and theirs to drag me 80 miles out of London and stand there while they inevitably ban me.
Any recommendations on what I could / should do when I get there? Gonna post on pepipoo.com too..
Cheers!
Accept the inevitable in that they want to look at you regarding a ban.
Contrition is now the name of the game.
Ignore sack clothes and ashes but appear not overly dressed and be somewhat submissive, no smart alexing. Point out what you can negativing any dangers i.e. fine dry road, good visibility, light traffic etc. Wrist has been duly slapped, been a fool, won't happen again etc.
Point out what the effect of a ban would be with letters to support this if possible from boss etc.
Write it all out before hand and practice so that you are not maxed by the Court, the occasion and getting in the witness box.
If you live near a Court and can spare the time pay a visit and see what goes on - well worth it.
dvd
Contrition is now the name of the game.
Ignore sack clothes and ashes but appear not overly dressed and be somewhat submissive, no smart alexing. Point out what you can negativing any dangers i.e. fine dry road, good visibility, light traffic etc. Wrist has been duly slapped, been a fool, won't happen again etc.
Point out what the effect of a ban would be with letters to support this if possible from boss etc.
Write it all out before hand and practice so that you are not maxed by the Court, the occasion and getting in the witness box.
If you live near a Court and can spare the time pay a visit and see what goes on - well worth it.
dvd
When I tried to beg to keep my licence after a tot up, appeared in a suit (normal work clothes) and was told by the Clerk on the way in "wearing that won't impress them". I was also told that as I was "educated and capable of getting another job" the prospect of losing my job would have no bearing on their decision.
What you need is a demonstration that you will suffer "exceptional hardship" if you lose your licence. Apparently, just losing your job does not qualify, even if your profession requires the use of one.
What you need is a demonstration that you will suffer "exceptional hardship" if you lose your licence. Apparently, just losing your job does not qualify, even if your profession requires the use of one.
Cheers guys! Sounds like I'm due a ban then! Gonna get my boss to write a letter, but I've not got much faith in getting out of a ban.
Anyone know what the regs are regarding having to re-take your driving test? Say I get a 3 month ban, will I have to re-take it or is that only for the lengthier ones?
Anyone know what the regs are regarding having to re-take your driving test? Say I get a 3 month ban, will I have to re-take it or is that only for the lengthier ones?
paulie-mafia said:
Cheers guys! Sounds like I'm due a ban then! Gonna get my boss to write a letter, but I've not got much faith in getting out of a ban.
Anyone know what the regs are regarding having to re-take your driving test? Say I get a 3 month ban, will I have to re-take it or is that only for the lengthier ones?
Anyone know what the regs are regarding having to re-take your driving test? Say I get a 3 month ban, will I have to re-take it or is that only for the lengthier ones?
It's mostly to do with the offence you are convicted of. For certain offences the court has to order a retest (speeding isn't one) & in others they may (where safety of other road users is a concern). It is the offence & circumstances that determines that, not really the length of ban.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 1st July 00:28
Ah, I see! They just did me for speeding, so presumeably I'm OK? I sold my car a month before getting done and I've held off buying a new one for the moment. Living in London it's actually fairly easy to not have a car, but it was the possibility of a retest that really concerned me - all that pointless wheel feeding, handbrake between changes on a 3-point turn etc nonsense.
paulie-mafia said:
I have no defence, I admitted guilt (saving them and the BiB court time), yet they're insisting on wasting my time and theirs to drag me 80 miles out of London and stand there while they inevitably ban me.
If they have invited you back it is to ban you. They can only ban someone in persone and not by post.
Make sure you've got alternative transport. Can't see you avoiding it but you may get them to reduce it to two to three weeks. You need to tell them how *other* people will be inconvienced by it and do lots of arse licking.
bluepolarbear said:
Make sure you've got alternative transport. Can't see you avoiding it but you may get them to reduce it to two to three weeks. You need to tell them how *other* people will be inconvienced by it and do lots of arse licking.
I absolutely hate arse licking, especially when it's someone that expects me to bow down to him just because he's in a position of power. That said, I will do my very best!
As for alternative transport, my Dad is driving me down there. He's already found a "nice pub for a spot of lunch and a pint afterwards" bless him!
Yeah... that's the bit about going to court that really stresses me (not that I've ever had to go). I hate the fact that you're supposed to look contrite and remorseful, wear a suit, and basically lie through your teeth to beg for mercy.
Whereas some career scumbag in court for his third offense will play the game, look contrite, borrow or rent a suit, and by pandering to the magistrates' need to feel powerful and important, will get a more lenient sentence.
I would want to be able stand up and say "With all due respect, I do not believe I was a danger to anyone, and I do not agree with the current policies regarding speed limits. I think there are more important things that money and effort should be spent on." How sad that we live in a country where behaving like that would result in them making an example of me as an unrepetent troublemaker, instead of treating it as the honest, heartfelt opinion of a decent, hard working, tax paying member of the community.
Whereas some career scumbag in court for his third offense will play the game, look contrite, borrow or rent a suit, and by pandering to the magistrates' need to feel powerful and important, will get a more lenient sentence.
I would want to be able stand up and say "With all due respect, I do not believe I was a danger to anyone, and I do not agree with the current policies regarding speed limits. I think there are more important things that money and effort should be spent on." How sad that we live in a country where behaving like that would result in them making an example of me as an unrepetent troublemaker, instead of treating it as the honest, heartfelt opinion of a decent, hard working, tax paying member of the community.
Edited by zadumbreion on Saturday 1st July 15:56
zadumbreion said:
Yeah... that's the bit about going to court that really stresses me (not that I've ever had to go). I hate the fact that you're supposed to look contrite and remorseful, wear a suit, and basically lie through your teeth to beg for mercy.
Whereas some career scumbag in court for his third offense will play the game, look contrite, borrow or rent a suit, and by pandering to the magistrates' need to feel powerful and important, will get a more lenient sentence.
I would want to be able stand up and say "With all due respect, I do not believe I was a danger to anyone, and I do not agree with the current policies regarding speed limits. I think there are more important things that money and effort should be spent on." How sad that we live in a country where behaving like that would result in them making an example of me as an unrepetent troublemaker, instead of treating it as the honest, heartfelt opinion of a decent, hard working, tax paying member of the community.
Whereas some career scumbag in court for his third offense will play the game, look contrite, borrow or rent a suit, and by pandering to the magistrates' need to feel powerful and important, will get a more lenient sentence.
I would want to be able stand up and say "With all due respect, I do not believe I was a danger to anyone, and I do not agree with the current policies regarding speed limits. I think there are more important things that money and effort should be spent on." How sad that we live in a country where behaving like that would result in them making an example of me as an unrepetent troublemaker, instead of treating it as the honest, heartfelt opinion of a decent, hard working, tax paying member of the community.
Edited by zadumbreion on Saturday 1st July 15:56
Yes I'm afraid I too would have immense difficulty in 'making the right noises' in court.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Alternatively tell 'em you can't be bothered to go?
Or is this "invitation" compulsory?
Regarding contrition and the often mentioned importance of showing remorse:
It's nonsense. My dad goes to court as an expert witness every other week and he says he can't believe the amount of "remorse" shown by some frankly loopy and dangerous defendants. He fails to understand why our legal system puts so much emphasis on it as most of it is so obviously just for show and has no relationship to how the defendant actually feels.
Personally I think it's just an ego trip for the magistrates or judge, they just want to make you grovel a bit so they can feel sooooo important. Of course there is the possibility, somewhat worrying, that they are actually taken in by all this display of contrition and guilt.
Or is this "invitation" compulsory?
Regarding contrition and the often mentioned importance of showing remorse:
It's nonsense. My dad goes to court as an expert witness every other week and he says he can't believe the amount of "remorse" shown by some frankly loopy and dangerous defendants. He fails to understand why our legal system puts so much emphasis on it as most of it is so obviously just for show and has no relationship to how the defendant actually feels.
Personally I think it's just an ego trip for the magistrates or judge, they just want to make you grovel a bit so they can feel sooooo important. Of course there is the possibility, somewhat worrying, that they are actually taken in by all this display of contrition and guilt.
Unfortunately, the older you get the more cynical you will become. Our "civilised" society is a game of charades where a pyramid of power exists. Those who want to "play the game" need to defer to those above them whilst at the same time, in order to establish their position in the pyramid, need others to defer to them so that they are "status-aware" and hopefully convince themselves that they are half-way up the pyramid rather than at the bottom. Magistrates, as "jumped-up" greengrocers, like to feel that they've come along way from their barrow-boy beginnings and are in line for a "gong". Unfortunately, it is necessary to swallow your pride and play the charade game by grovelling to their ilk when they are "acting" in their role as magistrates. In the UK it's impossible to beat the system, because the pyramid of power is so well organised and manned by so many folks who need to belong to a system which promises them increased status.
bluepolarbear said:
Make sure you've got alternative transport.
Way back in 1978 i had to go to Knutsford mags to plead guilty to speeding, it was my third in three years so i had to plead for my licence, as i was driving for a living i thought it would be a doddle.
It was winter and i finished work at 6am and drove to Knutsford and parked in a car park near the court it was still dark when i got there.
The windows in the open court were slightly high and to see out side you had to stand up, so being a bit bored i stood up to look out side to get my bearings and there right under the window was my VW Beetle.
I thought, "Shit! thats going to look good if i get a 4 week ban, me walking out side to get in a car to drive home, i did`nt get a ban, they gave me a double fine instead.
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