Speeding Ticket - 70mph on M20
Discussion
I have recently been sent a speeding ticket (my first) for doing 70mph on the M20 at 5.30am last Sunday. The section of the road it happened on had cones down the hard shoulder and 50mph signs, though obviously the road was dead empty and no-body was working on the site due to the early hour. Is there any way to argue this fine or is it a case of just pay up and take the points? Any advice is welcomed.
cliff123 said:
I have recently been sent a speeding ticket (my first) for doing 70mph on the M20 at 5.30am last Sunday. The section of the road it happened on had cones down the hard shoulder and 50mph signs, though obviously the road was dead empty and no-body was working on the site due to the early hour. Is there any way to argue this fine or is it a case of just pay up and take the points? Any advice is welcomed.
Unless you can find flaws in the signage, you're stuffed. If you take it before the beak, you're likely to come out with more than the £60/3 points you'll get from the FPN.
I suppose how hard you want to fight depends on what you're currently carrying, pointswise. If you're on 9 points and face destitution if banned, then hire Nick Freeman. Otherwise bite the bullet and accept it.
On the Monday following the Sunday you were caught was all the signage uplifted?.
If that is the case then works completed. There is a direction in Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002 :
Restrictions on the placing of temporary signs
36. The signs shown in Schedule 12,(this includes the speed restriction/repeater signs other than in diagrams 7014, 7019, 7020, 7032 and 7103, may be placed only in connection with the execution of works on or near a road or a temporary obstruction thereon, and any such sign so placed and any other sign shown in a diagram in Schedules 1 to 11 so placed shall not be retained on or near the road after the completion of the works or the removal of the obstruction, as the case may be,
So works completed signs should have been taken down leading to end of temporary speed limit for works. An arguement that has been used in the past to escape a conviction.
dvd
If that is the case then works completed. There is a direction in Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002 :
Restrictions on the placing of temporary signs
36. The signs shown in Schedule 12,(this includes the speed restriction/repeater signs other than in diagrams 7014, 7019, 7020, 7032 and 7103, may be placed only in connection with the execution of works on or near a road or a temporary obstruction thereon, and any such sign so placed and any other sign shown in a diagram in Schedules 1 to 11 so placed shall not be retained on or near the road after the completion of the works or the removal of the obstruction, as the case may be,
So works completed signs should have been taken down leading to end of temporary speed limit for works. An arguement that has been used in the past to escape a conviction.
dvd
Edited by Dwight Vandriver on Monday 17th July 08:27
The BIB hide behind the bridges, and between ashford and maidstone they also sit on top of them. Yeah, the BIB were on top of a bridge over the M20 just after a large sweeping right hand bend. I saw them and took my foot off the pedal, but obviously should have braked hard. Only didnt brake as 70mph at that time, with three lanes and only 2 other cars in sight, seemed to be a perfectly safe speed to be doing.
Obviously the employment of 2 police officers to sit in a van and take pictures of cars doing a safe speed on a large road is a good use of our tax and policing resources!
Obviously the employment of 2 police officers to sit in a van and take pictures of cars doing a safe speed on a large road is a good use of our tax and policing resources!
cliff123 said:
...Obviously the employment of 2 police officers to sit in a van and take pictures of cars doing a safe speed on a large road is a good use of our tax and policing resources!
Yes, they're only after the easiest sorces of revenue.
Only recently, I was told of a BIB who was caught (by other BIB) exceeding the motorway limit only slightly, while another car was passing much quicker. When he asked why they hadn't gone after the other car travelling much faster they said because he was the easier one to catch.
Further cast iron proof of the true nature of the revenue-driven speed limit industry.
cliff123 said:
Is there any point to appeal, claiming that 70mph was a safe speed considering the state of the road, ie weather conditions, visability, lack of traffic, time of day, three motorway lanes open, scale of actual road works (cones down hard shoulder only) etc?
Not on those grounds no.
How safe it is , how clear of traffic it is, how good the weather is etc are only mitigation for you, they are not a defence. The offence is absolute, if the limit is 50mph that is the limit in the best conditions possible, not the worst.
had that the other day, m2 or m20 not sure, 50 mph set the cruise to 45 and lots of disgruntled drivers overtaking at 55+, then we all came round the corner to see a scamera van on the bridge, lots of blue smoke and people soon got the msg.
Looks like the original poster is screwed, put it down to experience that it is not worth going thru 50 mph roadworks even when no workers
Looks like the original poster is screwed, put it down to experience that it is not worth going thru 50 mph roadworks even when no workers
7db said:
The hazard is not only the workers, of course...
Did TRL595 or a similarly numbered report not conclude (although they didn't actually say it) that remote speed enforcement at motorway road works had no safety benefit, and in fact added danger to the road.
Having witnessed, and received second hand accounts of mental manoeuvres to avoid detection by motorway specs cameras in our area, and the smidsy close shaves due to platooning, I'm inclined to agree.
IaHa said:
7db said:
The hazard is not only the workers, of course...
Did TRL595 or a similarly numbered report not conclude (although they didn't actually say it) that remote speed enforcement at motorway road works had no safety benefit, and in fact added danger to the road.
Having witnessed, and received second hand accounts of mental manoeuvres to avoid detection by motorway specs cameras in our area, and the smidsy close shaves due to platooning, I'm inclined to agree.
I also read that report Liebchen. Und I know exactly what you mean about those specs too. I think I see what you see und hear there too.
As for the cliff... if the lollies said "£50" - even if empty road.. he ist caught by scam. If road had been busy und loads of "cleavage in sight" -then you could argue they were "not making money" .. but then - we all know they would not be on bridge when there would be a danger of a prang as prang would be below this speed limit
These are truly sad times, when did the police force change from being a service to protect the public and solve crimes to a money making business at the expense of the very (on the whole) law abiding people they were meant to protect?
Violent crime is rising, people feel that there is zero police presense on the street, solving burglary is a complete joke, but somehow, they mangage to try and convince us that car users are the number one target, and get all the funding they need! I kind of feel that the police are no nothing more than cowardly bullies, they cannot solve proper crime (at least from my own personal experience), some do not want to confront the likes of Pikey's or any other abusive parts of society, so to compensate, they'll pick on Mr and Mrs aveage road user, well, it is safer for them, bless!
Violent crime is rising, people feel that there is zero police presense on the street, solving burglary is a complete joke, but somehow, they mangage to try and convince us that car users are the number one target, and get all the funding they need! I kind of feel that the police are no nothing more than cowardly bullies, they cannot solve proper crime (at least from my own personal experience), some do not want to confront the likes of Pikey's or any other abusive parts of society, so to compensate, they'll pick on Mr and Mrs aveage road user, well, it is safer for them, bless!
My bug is, 70 was a perfectly safe speed for that road. I am sure I have plenty to learn about driving, but I know enough that 70 was safe for this road at that time, and thats what the police should be enforcing. Not some silly trap such as this. All the BIB have acheived is recruiting another person to the anti speed camera campaign and bad feelings towards the police.
IaHa said:
Write to your MP.
Write to Douglas Alexander.
There is so much more to road safety than a speed limit.
But the important stuff is being sidelined because of this fixation.
And it's obvious that safety is suffering as a result.
Oh, and join safespeed too if you can afford to.
Write to Douglas Alexander.
There is so much more to road safety than a speed limit.
But the important stuff is being sidelined because of this fixation.
And it's obvious that safety is suffering as a result.
Oh, and join safespeed too if you can afford to.
bow: Hear! Hear! Liebchen .. I want more of your sort. You are the calibre we want.
Und just so the others on this site do not feel miffed or left out.. I want more Dibbles, gones. Tony Recs silvery backed up mikes, gemini, willcrashes und Thermos Flasks..
.. roobocops.. John57, john robsons und weird nevilles... Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff