Pick up passengers
Discussion
This may well fall into the dumb questions category...
I've got an old ex military Land Rover (see profile pic). Where does the law stand on carrying passengers in the back? There are no seats, but there are metal benches running up the sides. If I was to fill the Land Rover up with friends and go off to a barbecue on a beach, with canvass roof either on or off, would I be breaking a law and would I be likely to get nicked?
I've got an old ex military Land Rover (see profile pic). Where does the law stand on carrying passengers in the back? There are no seats, but there are metal benches running up the sides. If I was to fill the Land Rover up with friends and go off to a barbecue on a beach, with canvass roof either on or off, would I be breaking a law and would I be likely to get nicked?
When did the rear selt belt law come in and is your Landy older than that?
That's an easy starting point, but I would guess as long as the benches aren't squeezed and the rear seat belts weren't required at manufacture you'd be ok.
There will no doubt be more informed information from others soon.
That's an easy starting point, but I would guess as long as the benches aren't squeezed and the rear seat belts weren't required at manufacture you'd be ok.
There will no doubt be more informed information from others soon.
Stubby Pete said:
When did the rear selt belt law come in and is your Landy older than that?
That's an easy starting point, but I would guess as long as the benches aren't squeezed and the rear seat belts weren't required at manufacture you'd be ok.
There will no doubt be more informed information from others soon.
It was made in 1980, so it definitely pre-dates rear seat belt laws. However, I wouldn't assume that this makes it safe from the gaze of the H&S brigade...That's an easy starting point, but I would guess as long as the benches aren't squeezed and the rear seat belts weren't required at manufacture you'd be ok.
There will no doubt be more informed information from others soon.
pdV6 said:
wiggy001 said:
How many people are you insured to carry?
Does a PSV licence kick in at 14 seats?Depends on when you got your license IIRC... 14 or 17 peeps rings a bell?
But I was thinking more of the actual insurance - doesn't you're policy only cover you for x number of people (normally 5 inc driver, although 4 for me in a 2+2)? Or is that just about "everybody must be seated" or something?
Sorry, of absolutely no help here
wiggy001 said:
pdV6 said:
wiggy001 said:
How many people are you insured to carry?
Does a PSV licence kick in at 14 seats?Depends on when you got your license IIRC... 14 or 17 peeps rings a bell?
But I was thinking more of the actual insurance - doesn't you're policy only cover you for x number of people (normally 5 inc driver, although 4 for me in a 2+2)? Or is that just about "everybody must be seated" or something?
Sorry, of absolutely no help here
Thought it was usually "subject to design & contruction of vehicle and holding appropriate licence" or somesuch?
Interesting point. The Land Rover was designed to carry 10 soldiers and their kit in the back. I'm only thinking in terms of four passengers in the back, and one in the front, so I would have thought I'd be safe from an insurance perspective, and they wouldn't be paying passengers!
I'm more concerned with the strict legality of having unsecured passengers in what basically amounts to an open pick up.
I'm more concerned with the strict legality of having unsecured passengers in what basically amounts to an open pick up.
pdV6 said:
wiggy001 said:
How many people are you insured to carry?
Does a PSV licence kick in at 14 seats?B (car) licence covers up to 8 people, older test-passers will also have D1, between 9 and 16 passengers (is this something to do with 'not for hire and reward'? i dunno)
Edited by hugoagogo on Wednesday 26th July 13:48
Presume that the Landie has 4 wheel drive in which case it is a dual purpose vehicle and the benchs in the rear are not forward facing.
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
Edited by Dwight Vandriver on Wednesday 26th July 15:25
Dwight Vandriver said:
Presume that the Landie has 4 wheel drive in which case it is a dual purpose vehicle and the benchs in the rear are not forward facing.
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
Edited by Dwight Vandriver on Wednesday 26th July 15:25
Thanks Dwight, but I'm still unclear, probably due to thickness.
The only seats in the vehicle, as such, are the driver's seat and front passenger seat. The seats in the rear are metal benches, which run sideways from the front to the rear (i.e. they are sideways facing). There are no belts, or provision for belts on these. The vehicle was manufactured in 1980 and is 4wd. Use is social only - no hire or reward.
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Wednesday 26th July 16:00
As a slight aside.. why not fit the LandRover benches to the back ? You are therefore having passengers sitting on the manufacturers seating as originally designed, and therefore should be totally "legal". As said, you're before the rear seatbelt legislation but you could bolt in some lap-straps if you really wanted to
The bench in the back really are not seats as such but bodywork that covers the rear wheels etc but can be sat upon.
In your Landie you will have anchorage points for the drivers seat and the specified passenger seat, that is the one furtherest away from driver. These seats will have to have a seat belts. The middle front facing seat will not have an achorage point and as the vehicle was fist used before 31.3.1981 (80mdl) not required to have seat belt likewise the benches in the back which will not have anchorage points so seat belts cannot be fitted.
If you want absolute confirmation go to the VOSA site and email them for a definitive answer which I firmly believe will be as stated here.
dvd
In your Landie you will have anchorage points for the drivers seat and the specified passenger seat, that is the one furtherest away from driver. These seats will have to have a seat belts. The middle front facing seat will not have an achorage point and as the vehicle was fist used before 31.3.1981 (80mdl) not required to have seat belt likewise the benches in the back which will not have anchorage points so seat belts cannot be fitted.
If you want absolute confirmation go to the VOSA site and email them for a definitive answer which I firmly believe will be as stated here.
dvd
Dwight Vandriver said:
The bench in the back really are not seats as such but bodywork that covers the rear wheels etc but can be sat upon.
In your Landie you will have anchorage points for the drivers seat and the specified passenger seat, that is the one furtherest away from driver. These seats will have to have a seat belts. The middle front facing seat will not have an achorage point and as the vehicle was fist used before 31.3.1981 (80mdl) not required to have seat belt likewise the benches in the back which will not have anchorage points so seat belts cannot be fitted.
If you want absolute confirmation go to the VOSA site and email them for a definitive answer which I firmly believe will be as stated here.
dvd
There is no middle seat, because that's where the radio set was mounted. In your Landie you will have anchorage points for the drivers seat and the specified passenger seat, that is the one furtherest away from driver. These seats will have to have a seat belts. The middle front facing seat will not have an achorage point and as the vehicle was fist used before 31.3.1981 (80mdl) not required to have seat belt likewise the benches in the back which will not have anchorage points so seat belts cannot be fitted.
If you want absolute confirmation go to the VOSA site and email them for a definitive answer which I firmly believe will be as stated here.
dvd
There are seat belts on both the front seats.
If I'm reading you rightly, you believe that I can carry my friends in the back of my Land Rover without seat belts and not be concerned about breaking any law?
Mon Ami Mate said:
Dwight Vandriver said:
Presume that the Landie has 4 wheel drive in which case it is a dual purpose vehicle and the benchs in the rear are not forward facing.
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
From the horses mouth re seat belts :
http://tinyurl.com/b5pkl
But take special regard to the last para about carrying passengers in such a manner as likely to cause danger.
Cat D Licence: vehicle constructed adapted to carry passengers having no more than 8 seats inclusive of driver. Generally Series 3 have three front four rear?
Cat D1 up to 16 passegers.
Not being used for hire and reward?
dvd
Edited by Dwight Vandriver on Wednesday 26th July 15:25
Thanks Dwight, but I'm still unclear, probably due to thickness.
The only seats in the vehicle, as such, are the driver's seat and front passenger seat. The seats in the rear are metal benches, which run sideways from the front to the rear (i.e. they are sideways facing). There are no belts, or provision for belts on these. The vehicle was manufactured in 1980 and is 4wd. Use is social only - no hire or reward.
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Wednesday 26th July 16:00
Actually MAM, the rear benches you describe were designed as seating capacity.
Being a military vehicle there is a strong possibility it is exempt from normal RTA laws, but only when used by the military, which obviously excludes you.
Due to the fact that the occupants of these seats are facing side on to the direction of travel of the seat belts, they would be worse than useless even if you did make up mounting points.
If you absolutely have to carry more bodies I would ditch the rear benches and fit a rear facing auxiliary seat with harnesses: much safer and totally legal.
DvD said:
Presume that the Landie has 4 wheel drive in which case it is a dual purpose vehicle ...
I didn't think 4WD had anything to do with the dual purpose vehicle classification. Whether or not it has side windows does matter though.
I have a 88" S3 which carries 7 persons in seats, 4 sideways facing with no belts. I had a 66 88" S2A before that which had foam cushions and could carry 8 students plus kit and no belts at all.
Dwight Vandriver said:
The bench in the back really are not seats as such but bodywork that covers the rear wheels etc but can be sat upon.
nearly right..
As said, There are proper fold down Benches that go on top of the metal inner wheelarch. They are standard part by Landrover and are clearly "Seats".. I'll find a picture somwhere.
Cheers
Matt
Edited by M@H on Thursday 27th July 10:16
here you go:
www.paddockspares.com/sp/category/DEFENDER/subcategory/Upholstery_and_Interiors/searchbox2/08)_Rear_Seats.html
..these are the Defender ones, but I have some in my 1968 Series IIa as well.
Edited by M@H on Thursday 27th July 10:22
Jith hits the nail on the head as far as I am aware and what I mentioned earlier.
Seat belts are for forward facing seats.
Just disposed of a 04 HT with the bench either side (without the drop downs) and there were no seat belt anchorage points so to me anyone sat on cushions/pad facing sideways no seat belts.
If I get time and it gets cooler will go through the Con and use again and post if different.
Interesting what Hollywood Wheels and others serving would do if they come across one?
dvd
Seat belts are for forward facing seats.
Just disposed of a 04 HT with the bench either side (without the drop downs) and there were no seat belt anchorage points so to me anyone sat on cushions/pad facing sideways no seat belts.
If I get time and it gets cooler will go through the Con and use again and post if different.
Interesting what Hollywood Wheels and others serving would do if they come across one?
dvd
I have a couple of 109s & the earlier of the two is a 1960 2A. I am 100% sure that no seat belts are required in the back. Although maybe not necessary I would suggest getting the bench seats as that to me shows that it is not just a pick up but actually meant to take passengers.
As for driving licences you are covered for a maximum of 16 passengers.
The only thing you might want to check is your insurance as mine covers me for no more
than eight people, some I believe may be as low as five people.
As for driving licences you are covered for a maximum of 16 passengers.
The only thing you might want to check is your insurance as mine covers me for no more
than eight people, some I believe may be as low as five people.
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