Which offences constitute a criminal conviction?
Discussion
I was told an interesting tale yesterday which has got me thinking - I can't go in to details for fear of breaking a professional confidence, but essentially it boils down to the title - is a simple speeding, 3 point + fine ticket a criminal conviction, which is permanently logged on your criminal record, and can be looked at via a Criminal Records Bureau check? Or do recordable criminal offences start with things like driving without due care, driving with no tax/insurance etc? Which offences go "On the record?"
nubbin said:
I was told an interesting tale yesterday which has got me thinking - I can't go in to details for fear of breaking a professional confidence, but essentially it boils down to the title - is a simple speeding, 3 point + fine ticket a criminal conviction, which is permanently logged on your criminal record, and can be looked at via a Criminal Records Bureau check? Or do recordable criminal offences start with things like driving without due care, driving with no tax/insurance etc? Which offences go "On the record?"
The Conviction only lasts for the length of time the points remain on your licence. For disqualification, the length of the disqual is the official "rehabilitation period".
^Slider^ said:
Getting a ticket for any 3 point offence wont give you a criminal record on PNC. Even if it goes to court i dont think you would get a PNC record created.
Not according to Vonhosen, had this conversation a while back.
I was suprised to be honest as I've never seen points come back on an enhanced CRB
nubbin said:
The specific issue was driving a car with an expired tax disc, and I believe the driver wasn't a named driver, so effectively driving with no insurance, and generated 6 points on his licence. Does that help in deciding?
Not recordable offences so no worries.
Insurance will be recorded only at DVLA for licence records for the period of 4 years regarding points issued if convicted. No points for VEL offences.
Plotloss said:
^Slider^ said:
Getting a ticket for any 3 point offence wont give you a criminal record on PNC. Even if it goes to court i dont think you would get a PNC record created.
Not according to Vonhosen, had this conversation a while back.
I was suprised to be honest as I've never seen points come back on an enhanced CRB
None of my PNC checks that i have conducted have returned any speeding points, i can check the D/L history and get all the points since license issued but not on a PNC record.
No insurance doesnt generally generate a PNC record unless you are in for a PNC recordable offence such as Drink Drive then the insurance will be added as a court disposal with the D/D
^Slider^ said:
Plotloss said:
^Slider^ said:
Getting a ticket for any 3 point offence wont give you a criminal record on PNC. Even if it goes to court i dont think you would get a PNC record created.
Not according to Vonhosen, had this conversation a while back.
I was suprised to be honest as I've never seen points come back on an enhanced CRB
None of my PNC checks that i have conducted have returned any speeding points, i can check the D/L history and get all the points since license issued but not on a PNC record.
No insurance doesnt generally generate a PNC record unless you are in for a PNC recordable offence such as Drink Drive then the insurance will be added as a court disposal with the D/D
So the CRB check uses the PNC as it's searchable database does it? It doesn't have a separate database which it uses to identify criminal convictions? Sorry if I sound dozy, but I'm not sure why this person is in trouble - apparently the 6-point offence wasn't declared when he was asked about previous convictions, (simply because he didn't believe it was a criminal matter) and only came to light on a CRB check following a change of circumstances.
The Oxford English Dictionary definiton of a conviction is "an instance of formally being found guilty of a criminal offence in a court of law"
I have a 'few' points for speeding accrued over the years, but I've never considered myself to be a criminal as I've never been in court (other than as a juror
)
I have a 'few' points for speeding accrued over the years, but I've never considered myself to be a criminal as I've never been in court (other than as a juror
) CRB is the department name which uses PNC. They also have access to the DVLA system which maybe where the points came from.
They can search PNC and DVLA systems as well as immigration and customs etc.
Although this is dependant on the curcs. And what search was requested.
He may have a PNCid or may have previously been disqualified which is why they went looking into DVLA records.
I cant see how a simple speeding offence would be on PNC.
A D/L check was probably requested which is where the points history came from.
They can search PNC and DVLA systems as well as immigration and customs etc.
Although this is dependant on the curcs. And what search was requested.
He may have a PNCid or may have previously been disqualified which is why they went looking into DVLA records.
I cant see how a simple speeding offence would be on PNC.
A D/L check was probably requested which is where the points history came from.
Plotloss said:
^Slider^ said:
Getting a ticket for any 3 point offence wont give you a criminal record on PNC. Even if it goes to court i dont think you would get a PNC record created.
Not according to Vonhosen, had this conversation a while back.
I was suprised to be honest as I've never seen points come back on an enhanced CRB
VH wouldn't feel he can use misinformation into scaring people into speed compliance would he? Ends justify the means and all that.
Speeding is a criminal offence & if you are convicted at court it is a criminal conviction.
If you go FPN route it isn't a criminal conviction, (you have taken the FPN in lieu of the criminal prosecution). However under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act a speeding FPN is discloseable as a criminal conviction for the same period as a criminal conviction resulting in a fine, which is for 5 years.
Speeding is not a "recordable" criminal conviction & as such you don't get a criminal record for it in most circumstances. I say in most circumstances because there are circumstances that you could, such as where you were dealt with for a recordable offence & were also dealt with for speeding at the same time. In those circumstances the recordable & normally non recordable offences would all be recorded on your criminal record for that instance.
If you go FPN route it isn't a criminal conviction, (you have taken the FPN in lieu of the criminal prosecution). However under the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act a speeding FPN is discloseable as a criminal conviction for the same period as a criminal conviction resulting in a fine, which is for 5 years.
Speeding is not a "recordable" criminal conviction & as such you don't get a criminal record for it in most circumstances. I say in most circumstances because there are circumstances that you could, such as where you were dealt with for a recordable offence & were also dealt with for speeding at the same time. In those circumstances the recordable & normally non recordable offences would all be recorded on your criminal record for that instance.
But speeding alone in court will not generate a PNCid.
Regarding the Rehab of offenders,
A standard CRB check shouldnt disclose driving convictions regardless of court finding or EFPN.
A DVLA check however will against the driver record, so why would a speeding record be marked against a CRB check as i thought a CRB check was basically a pheonix check for recordable offences and as a result shouldnt have been disclosed unless he agreed to a DVLA check on the driver number / name.
Regarding the Rehab of offenders,
A standard CRB check shouldnt disclose driving convictions regardless of court finding or EFPN.
A DVLA check however will against the driver record, so why would a speeding record be marked against a CRB check as i thought a CRB check was basically a pheonix check for recordable offences and as a result shouldnt have been disclosed unless he agreed to a DVLA check on the driver number / name.
^Slider^ said:
But speeding alone in court will not generate a PNCid.
Regarding the Rehab of offenders,
A standard CRB check shouldnt disclose driving convictions regardless of court finding or EFPN.
A DVLA check however will against the driver record, so why would a speeding record be marked against a CRB check as i thought a CRB check was basically a pheonix check for recordable offences and as a result shouldnt have been disclosed unless he agreed to a DVLA check on the driver number / name.
Regarding the Rehab of offenders,
A standard CRB check shouldnt disclose driving convictions regardless of court finding or EFPN.
A DVLA check however will against the driver record, so why would a speeding record be marked against a CRB check as i thought a CRB check was basically a pheonix check for recordable offences and as a result shouldnt have been disclosed unless he agreed to a DVLA check on the driver number / name.
No speeding "alone" won't generate a PNCID.
But where it is a supplementary offence to a recordable one, it will go on there & will be on the PNC conviction record.
I'm just giving the answers as to whether it is
a criminal offence = yes
a recordable offence = no
can end up on a conviction record = yes, in certain circumstances
counts as a discloseable offence under RoOA = yes, for 5 years whether from FPN or fine at court.
Edited by vonhosen on Thursday 27th July 16:11
so can i get a firearms Licence to protect myself and Family as I hav no convictions whatever?, after all it says in Magna Carta that we all have the right to bear arms?, and I just want to bear arms ok?, to protect my Family from the ever increasing threat of Foreign crime, after all most Crime nowadays is carried out by "Foreigners" aint it, so why not?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff