Cops vs Cameras
Discussion
Someone on Safespeed drew my attention to an article in the current Autoexpress. They obtained figures from Police Authorities under FOI.
Nationally the ratio of fixed cameras to cars used for road policing (not necessarily trafpol) is 2.2 to 1.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
The worst of the lot BY FAR is my local authority Staffordshire who have a ratio of 7.4 to 1 (with only 35 cars for the whole county). Staffs disbanded their trafpol division six years ago, so they could instead handle "a whole variety of crimes" and claim they can get the same effect with one traffic car as they did with three before - thanks to cameras and ANPR!
So if you are a moron driver or piss-head Stafforshire is the place for you!
Here, you can drive past a camera outside a school at 30mph, pissed, on the wrong side of road, whilst reading a newspaper and talking on a mobile and nothing will happen unless you hit someone.
The other worst authorities are:
Derbyshire 4.2 to 1
Lancashire 4 to 1
London (Met and City) 5.9 to 1
Notts 4.1 to 1
Thames Valley 4.1 to 1
West Yorks 4.7 to 1
I despair!
Nationally the ratio of fixed cameras to cars used for road policing (not necessarily trafpol) is 2.2 to 1.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
The worst of the lot BY FAR is my local authority Staffordshire who have a ratio of 7.4 to 1 (with only 35 cars for the whole county). Staffs disbanded their trafpol division six years ago, so they could instead handle "a whole variety of crimes" and claim they can get the same effect with one traffic car as they did with three before - thanks to cameras and ANPR!
So if you are a moron driver or piss-head Stafforshire is the place for you!
Here, you can drive past a camera outside a school at 30mph, pissed, on the wrong side of road, whilst reading a newspaper and talking on a mobile and nothing will happen unless you hit someone.
The other worst authorities are:
Derbyshire 4.2 to 1
Lancashire 4 to 1
London (Met and City) 5.9 to 1
Notts 4.1 to 1
Thames Valley 4.1 to 1
West Yorks 4.7 to 1
I despair!
Well you'd have to be a piss-head to live in Staffordshire... 
Sounds like an interesting place to drive. Lets do some fun friday afternoon maths to find out! (Warning, these are very simplified maths!)
Apparently they've got 3,100 miles of roads in the county. So assuming the 35 cars are utilised 80% of the time (allowing for maintenance, changing shifts, etc.) each car has an average patch of 110.7 miles of road.
We'll assume that you've got a 2 mile drive home from the pub, and you're so pissed that you can't work the gearbox and so are averaging 10mph in first. So you'll be on the road for 12 minutes.
Now assuming that the Plod are actively cruising around, looking for crime rather than just sat at pre-determined hot spots, and averaging 30mph, it takes 221 minutes for each car to cover it's whole patch.
So the likelihood of getting busted, assuming you're constantly swerving around the road attracting attention (and according to this simplified model), is 5.4%. Or about one in twenty.
Nah, that can't be right! I think my model must be flawed!
Sounds like an interesting place to drive. Lets do some fun friday afternoon maths to find out! (Warning, these are very simplified maths!)
Apparently they've got 3,100 miles of roads in the county. So assuming the 35 cars are utilised 80% of the time (allowing for maintenance, changing shifts, etc.) each car has an average patch of 110.7 miles of road.
We'll assume that you've got a 2 mile drive home from the pub, and you're so pissed that you can't work the gearbox and so are averaging 10mph in first. So you'll be on the road for 12 minutes.
Now assuming that the Plod are actively cruising around, looking for crime rather than just sat at pre-determined hot spots, and averaging 30mph, it takes 221 minutes for each car to cover it's whole patch.
So the likelihood of getting busted, assuming you're constantly swerving around the road attracting attention (and according to this simplified model), is 5.4%. Or about one in twenty.
Nah, that can't be right! I think my model must be flawed!
Edited by Andrew D on Friday 18th August 14:04
KB_S1 said:
The bits about no fixed cameras in sections of Scotland is untrue i am afraid, there are plenty enough.
On route to and around Aberdeen.
On the A6 around the Borders. There is even one on the M9 underpass of the Newbridge R/about.
On route to and around Aberdeen.
On the A6 around the Borders. There is even one on the M9 underpass of the Newbridge R/about.
The ones I gave are specific Police Authorities:
Other Scottish figures are: Grampian/NE Scotland 1.3 to 1, Lothian and Borders 1.6 to 1, Strathclyde 0.8 to 1, Tayside 1.1 to 1
Have your say on this story here;
www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=158338&command=displayContent&sourceNode=158321&contentPK=15187021&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch
FORCE HITS BACK OVER 'LACK OF ROAD POLICE'
SAMANTHA LAWTON
15:00 - 18 August 2006
Police and road safety managers in Staffordshire have dismissed claims that the county has seven times more fixed speed cameras than police traffic cars. They stress that all of the police's 284 marked vehicles and their drivers can tackle road crime, but catching speeding motorists is no longer part of the officers' role.
The county has the fourth-highest number of fixed cameras at 260 - neighbouring Cheshire has just 51, West Midlands has 235, and Derbyshire has 117.
A national newspaper has reported how only 35 of the force's cars are being used to detect traffic offences, giving a ratio of 7.4 cameras to each one.
In fact, the force's specialist road crime team has just 20 marked vehicles (a ratio of 13 to one) - but these are not traffic police in the traditional sense. They are there to detect, for example, stolen and untaxed vehicles.
The force's traffic division was scrapped in 1999 to save money.
A joint statement given by Staffordshire Police and Staffordshire Casualty Reduction Partnership (SCRP), which runs the network of cameras, said: "The national newspaper article is misleading. We have 284 marked vehicles, and all officers and special constables are trained and can deal with traffic-related matters such as manner of driving, defective vehicles, driving while using a mobile phone and road traffic collisions.
"We do have one of the highest number of safety cameras in the country, since we were one of the first to introduce them in 1995.
"Other safety camera partnerships have been set up in different parts of the country, but some have only been running for a short period of time and therefore have fewer safety cameras.
"The aim of using safety cameras is to reduce the number of serious and fatal injury road traffic collisions, and there is a strong correlation between speeding and serious injury collisions.
"Throughout the year many campaigns are run to highlight the dangers of specific traffic problems, such as using a mobile phone while driving, not wearing seatbelts, vehicle safety checks, drink-driving and speeding.
"We have an intelligence-led specialist road crime team who focus on criminality on the roads, which includes dealing with defective vehicles, no insurance or MOT, to arresting offenders of burglaries, robberies and drug trafficking."
Paul Biggs, Staffordshire co-ordinator for the Association of British Drivers (ABD), believes traditional road policing is being replaced by technology which cannot spot bad driving.
He said: "The old traffic division was a specially trained elite branch of patrol cars, a very rare breed of officers who almost had a sixth sense to spot suspects, and that's what we are now lacking.
"Ordinary police officers aren't trained to that standard. The traffic police have been replaced with these single functioning machines which just detect cars over the limit, not bad driving, drink or drug-driving.
"Just because Staffordshire started introducing speed cameras 10 years ago, doesn't mean they have to keep on putting them in."
Between 2002 and 2004, the SCRP raised £4.6 million by snapping law-breakers - £1.1 million of which was kept by the Treasury. Figures for the last year are not yet available.
Does this area have too many speed cameras?
www.thisisstaffordshire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=158338&command=displayContent&sourceNode=158321&contentPK=15187021&moduleName=InternalSearch&formname=sidebarsearch
FORCE HITS BACK OVER 'LACK OF ROAD POLICE'
SAMANTHA LAWTON
15:00 - 18 August 2006
Police and road safety managers in Staffordshire have dismissed claims that the county has seven times more fixed speed cameras than police traffic cars. They stress that all of the police's 284 marked vehicles and their drivers can tackle road crime, but catching speeding motorists is no longer part of the officers' role.
The county has the fourth-highest number of fixed cameras at 260 - neighbouring Cheshire has just 51, West Midlands has 235, and Derbyshire has 117.
A national newspaper has reported how only 35 of the force's cars are being used to detect traffic offences, giving a ratio of 7.4 cameras to each one.
In fact, the force's specialist road crime team has just 20 marked vehicles (a ratio of 13 to one) - but these are not traffic police in the traditional sense. They are there to detect, for example, stolen and untaxed vehicles.
The force's traffic division was scrapped in 1999 to save money.
A joint statement given by Staffordshire Police and Staffordshire Casualty Reduction Partnership (SCRP), which runs the network of cameras, said: "The national newspaper article is misleading. We have 284 marked vehicles, and all officers and special constables are trained and can deal with traffic-related matters such as manner of driving, defective vehicles, driving while using a mobile phone and road traffic collisions.
"We do have one of the highest number of safety cameras in the country, since we were one of the first to introduce them in 1995.
"Other safety camera partnerships have been set up in different parts of the country, but some have only been running for a short period of time and therefore have fewer safety cameras.
"The aim of using safety cameras is to reduce the number of serious and fatal injury road traffic collisions, and there is a strong correlation between speeding and serious injury collisions.
"Throughout the year many campaigns are run to highlight the dangers of specific traffic problems, such as using a mobile phone while driving, not wearing seatbelts, vehicle safety checks, drink-driving and speeding.
"We have an intelligence-led specialist road crime team who focus on criminality on the roads, which includes dealing with defective vehicles, no insurance or MOT, to arresting offenders of burglaries, robberies and drug trafficking."
Paul Biggs, Staffordshire co-ordinator for the Association of British Drivers (ABD), believes traditional road policing is being replaced by technology which cannot spot bad driving.
He said: "The old traffic division was a specially trained elite branch of patrol cars, a very rare breed of officers who almost had a sixth sense to spot suspects, and that's what we are now lacking.
"Ordinary police officers aren't trained to that standard. The traffic police have been replaced with these single functioning machines which just detect cars over the limit, not bad driving, drink or drug-driving.
"Just because Staffordshire started introducing speed cameras 10 years ago, doesn't mean they have to keep on putting them in."
Between 2002 and 2004, the SCRP raised £4.6 million by snapping law-breakers - £1.1 million of which was kept by the Treasury. Figures for the last year are not yet available.
Does this area have too many speed cameras?
Prof Beard said:
Nationally the ratio of fixed cameras to cars used for road policing (not necessarily trafpol) is 2.2 to 1.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
Didn't the counties of N.Yorks and Durham have the best record for KSI reduction over the last 5 years too or something like that? (can't remember exactly but they did well vs all the other counties)
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Prof Beard said:
Nationally the ratio of fixed cameras to cars used for road policing (not necessarily trafpol) is 2.2 to 1.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
Didn't the counties of N.Yorks and Durham have the best record for KSI reduction over the last 5 years too or something like that? (can't remember exactly but they did well vs all the other counties)
Dave
I do believe you may be right!
Funny that - could it be that the ABD and SafeSpeed have been right all along???Prof Beard said:
Central Scotland, Dumfries and Galloway, Durham, Fife, North Yorks, and North Scotland have NO fixed cameras.
I wouldn't care if there were millions of fixed cameras - OK, you can have a blonde moment and get snapped, but a big orange box shouldn't catch too many people.
What's much more annoying is mobile cameras - they can be (and often are) hidden, and they're often used at very long range in situations where there's no safety issue, but are simply in a place known to good for catching people.
redgriff500 said:
More cameras ... less cops please.
I used to have 9 points...
Now I have a Bell 550 a Tomtom and a clean license !
I used to have 9 points...
Now I have a Bell 550 a Tomtom and a clean license !
But I want more cops. I read a number of the region's local papers - and each paper carries a road KSI. This does seem to show that the stats are not exagerated.
Only... each one involves some illegal t
t behind the wheel - drunk/drugged/impaired/ or in a defective or not even licenced or insured to drive as he nicked the thing. I also read of growing numbers of car jackings throughout the North West main 'burbs. Thus - I want those cops - lots of them on the road.
And yes - we have relative who works as BiB in Durham. He says they do target bad driving standards first and foremost - but do make use of in-car cameras and their one cam van as well. :roll:
But they have a "campaign of the month" apparently whereby they will focus on a "specific" and advertise the fact that they are doing so in their local media. Result? They have a decent record - but reckon still to be improved.
Of course - they say most of the fleet are on the road all the time. I have to admit I have seen them whenever I've been over that way. Blimey!
catso said:
"The aim of using safety cameras is to reduce the number of serious and fatal injury road traffic collisions, and there is a strong correlation between speeding and serious injury collisions.
"Throughout the year many campaigns are run to highlight the dangers of specific traffic problems, such as using a mobile phone while driving, not wearing seatbelts, vehicle safety checks, drink-driving and speeding.
"Throughout the year many campaigns are run to highlight the dangers of specific traffic problems, such as using a mobile phone while driving, not wearing seatbelts, vehicle safety checks, drink-driving and speeding.
ah so that's ok then, no need for traffic police as the adverts will stop illegal driving!
Andrew D said:
Well you'd have to be a piss-head to live in Staffordshire...
Sounds like an interesting place to drive. Lets do some fun friday afternoon maths to find out! (Warning, these are very simplified maths!)
Apparently they've got 3,100 miles of roads in the county. So assuming the 35 cars are utilised 80% of the time (allowing for maintenance, changing shifts, etc.) each car has an average patch of 110.7 miles of road.
We'll assume that you've got a 2 mile drive home from the pub, and you're so pissed that you can't work the gearbox and so are averaging 10mph in first. So you'll be on the road for 12 minutes.
Now assuming that the Plod are actively cruising around, looking for crime rather than just sat at pre-determined hot spots, and averaging 30mph, it takes 221 minutes for each car to cover it's whole patch.
So the likelihood of getting busted, assuming you're constantly swerving around the road attracting attention (and according to this simplified model), is 5.4%. Or about one in twenty.
Nah, that can't be right! I think my model must be flawed!
Sounds like an interesting place to drive. Lets do some fun friday afternoon maths to find out! (Warning, these are very simplified maths!)
Apparently they've got 3,100 miles of roads in the county. So assuming the 35 cars are utilised 80% of the time (allowing for maintenance, changing shifts, etc.) each car has an average patch of 110.7 miles of road.
We'll assume that you've got a 2 mile drive home from the pub, and you're so pissed that you can't work the gearbox and so are averaging 10mph in first. So you'll be on the road for 12 minutes.
Now assuming that the Plod are actively cruising around, looking for crime rather than just sat at pre-determined hot spots, and averaging 30mph, it takes 221 minutes for each car to cover it's whole patch.
So the likelihood of getting busted, assuming you're constantly swerving around the road attracting attention (and according to this simplified model), is 5.4%. Or about one in twenty.
Nah, that can't be right! I think my model must be flawed!
Edited by Andrew D on Friday 18th August 14:04
but speed kills
and you will be doing 10mph therefore you are far safer then a sober driver doing 31mph
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