Insurance Question to Ponder
Discussion
Considering buying the g/f a car, as an opportunity from a good friend (history known etc) has come up. Only thing is, she's not passed her test yet.
So I was thinking of giving her the money, she registers the car in her name, and leaves it parked on my drive until she passes her test. Only insuring the car in her name after passing. I understand if it gets nicked, then I lose out, but it's not a very expensive car, and I believe its worth the risk.
Can I drive the car on my insurance policy - which covers me any vehicle with owners consent fully comp (excluding hire cars etc blah blah), if the vehicle is not insured by the owner?
Cheers,
Mark
So I was thinking of giving her the money, she registers the car in her name, and leaves it parked on my drive until she passes her test. Only insuring the car in her name after passing. I understand if it gets nicked, then I lose out, but it's not a very expensive car, and I believe its worth the risk.
Can I drive the car on my insurance policy - which covers me any vehicle with owners consent fully comp (excluding hire cars etc blah blah), if the vehicle is not insured by the owner?
Cheers,
Mark
I seem to remember a similar discusion recently. The answer was yes BUT only whilst you were driving it. IE you wouldn't be able to leave it parked on the road or public car parks etc.
So you would be able to drive it round the block etc but you wouldn't be able to take it to the shops.
So you would be able to drive it round the block etc but you wouldn't be able to take it to the shops.
If your girlfriend is the owner, then your own insurance will cover you to drive it at third party risk. As soon as you park it anywhere, it will not be covered. If it happens to be parked on a road, both you and your girlfriend will be liable for offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance (lots of points for both of you). Her because she allowed you to do it and you for doing it.
That is your major problem.
That is your major problem.
madcop said: If your girlfriend is the owner, then your own insurance will cover you to drive it at third party risk. As soon as you park it anywhere, it will not be covered. If it happens to be parked on a road, both you and your girlfriend will be liable for offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance (lots of points for both of you). Her because she allowed you to do it and you for doing it.
That is your major problem.
very slim chance . whos going to know?
ie cars parked officer says can I see your documens sir.
driver says no shorry office, no i cant I am not legaly obliged to show you them as my jouney is completed and im am not driving now.
and oh have nice day officer
.
as for her geting done i I dont think so
qout"I told him to park it off road"
no charge to answer.
or park it on the pavement no points then only a parling ticket
also you dont happen to know the sec no covering
offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance.
I never looked would be intrested in a quick read.
>> Edited by outlaw on Saturday 22 February 22:14
madcop said: If your girlfriend is the owner, then your own insurance will cover you to drive it at third party risk. As soon as you park it anywhere, it will not be covered. If it happens to be parked on a road, both you and your girlfriend will be liable for offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance (lots of points for both of you). Her because she allowed you to do it and you for doing it.
That is your major problem.
very slim chance . whos going to know?
ie cars parked officer says can I see your documens sir.
driver says no shorry office, no i cant I am not legaly obliged to show you them as my jouney is completed and im am not driving now.
and oh have nice day officer
as for her geting done i I dont think so
qout"I told him to park it off road"
no charge to answer.
or park it on the pavement no points then only a parling ticket
also you dont happen to know the sec no covering
offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance.
I never look would be intrested in a quick read.
pluss no offence but im wondering if you 100 percent correct
take like say a rider policey for a bike like Norige union used do ,dont know if they still do some time since i rode
ie the riders covered for any bike up certain cc
not any poticular bike covered ?
outlaw said:
ie cars parked officer says can I see your documens sir.
driver says no shorry office, no i cant I am not legaly obliged to show you them as my jouney is completed and im am not driving now.
and oh have nice day officer
Officer then says if it is on the road, "But sir, you are not obliged to show me your driving licence because I did not see you driving. However the car is on the road and I would like to see the MOT and Insurance. If you fail to do so, you commit the relevant offences."
as for her geting done i I dont think so
qout"I told him to park it off road"
no charge to answer.
or park it on the pavement no points then only a parling ticket
Strict liability outlaw!
Owner and driver both culpable.
also you dont happen to know the sec no covering
offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance.
I never looked would be intrested in a quick read.
Its covered by Section 143(1) Road traffic act 1988.
(a) a person must not use a motor vehicle on a road unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person a policy of insurance.......
This would be the person that parks it there.
Leaving it on a road is classed as using it.
(b) a person must not cause or permit any other person to use a motor vehicle on a road unless there is in force in relation to the use of the vehicle by that person such a policy of insurance.....
This would cater for the owner permitting him to use it
i.e. the girlfriend
The word use is the crucial one.
Notice it does not say drives.
USE, CAUSE, PERMIT, are the crucial elements of this offence.
These concepts are central to many Road Traffic Offences. They have been the subject of case law through the years.
USE
'Using' has in the past, been held to involve an element of 'controlling, managing or operating the vehicle'
(Thomas v Hooper [1986] RTR 1). This is true no longer!
If a motor vehicle is shown to be on a 'road', it may be said to be in use even if it is in such a state that it cannot be driven (Pumbien v Vines [1996] RTR 37).
There is no longer a need to show some element of control or operation of the vehicle or by the owner in order to prove use
The intention of the owner is irrelevant in determining whether or not a vehicle was being 'used' at the time of an offence. What matters is that the defendant can be shown to have 'had the use of' that vehicle (Eden v Mitchell [1975] RTR 425)
Therefore if a vehicle is not in a roadworthy condition it can still be available for the owners use even though the owner has o intentionof utilising it while it remains in tha state.
The power to demand the production of documents under this regulation comes from
Section 165 Road Traffic Act 1988
(a) A person driving a motor vehicle on a road, or
(b)...........
This is the important one outlaw
(c) a person whom a constable or vehicle examiner has reasonable cause to believe to have committed an offence in relation to the use on a road of a motor vehicle, must on being so required by a constable or vehicle examiner, give his name and address and the name and address of the owner of the vehicle and produce the following documents for examination.
(2) Those documents are-
(a) the relevant certificate of insurance.......
So you can see that the Police can have a power to require Insurance and MOT produced from a vehicle driver or owner, or even parts of a motor vehicle that are parked on a road.
As stated above, the only thing they cannot ask for unless they see you driving before the vehicle was parked is your driving licence.
>> Edited by madcop on Saturday 22 February 23:36
You are right the registered keeper is not necessarily the owner. I think however you will find that most policies cover the specific vehicle in the policy or any vehicle owned by the policy holder unless it is a traders policy.
The problem arises when someone has ownership of a vehicle which is not in itself covered by a specific policy and allows someone else to drive it on the borrowers policy which usually will cover them only to drive and at third party risks. Once the vehicle is no longer being driven, the insurance cover leaves the vehicle along with the driver who was using it under his own policy and there is then no specific policy covering it if it is left on a road.
The problem arises when someone has ownership of a vehicle which is not in itself covered by a specific policy and allows someone else to drive it on the borrowers policy which usually will cover them only to drive and at third party risks. Once the vehicle is no longer being driven, the insurance cover leaves the vehicle along with the driver who was using it under his own policy and there is then no specific policy covering it if it is left on a road.
You will not be able to drive the car.
The reason is simple, the car needs it's own insurance policy. The car must have an existing policy covering it in order for your own insurance to cover it.
Think about it, if this was not the case then you would never need to insure a second or a third car. You could buy any additional car of your choice and drive it. That is never going to happen!
Also, here's a brainteaser for you... If you were to buy a new car without part exchanging your old one, and transferred the insurance to the new car, then the old car could not be driven (by anyone). How does the prospective new owner take it for a test drive?
The reason is simple, the car needs it's own insurance policy. The car must have an existing policy covering it in order for your own insurance to cover it.
Think about it, if this was not the case then you would never need to insure a second or a third car. You could buy any additional car of your choice and drive it. That is never going to happen!
Also, here's a brainteaser for you... If you were to buy a new car without part exchanging your old one, and transferred the insurance to the new car, then the old car could not be driven (by anyone). How does the prospective new owner take it for a test drive?
Thanks all for the replies.
All of the above understood, but has raised a further query.....
My insurance is a "group" policy through work, through a Lloyds syndicate. It clearly allows me to drive any vehicle, fully comp, with the owners permission (even hire cars etc). In fact, I've just used it for a loaner when my car was in for a service - garage accepted it without question.
If the loaner had been hit, whilst parked on the road, would my insurance have had to deal with it, or the dealerships, as the vehicle was obviously in my temporary use?
Cheers, Mark
All of the above understood, but has raised a further query.....
My insurance is a "group" policy through work, through a Lloyds syndicate. It clearly allows me to drive any vehicle, fully comp, with the owners permission (even hire cars etc). In fact, I've just used it for a loaner when my car was in for a service - garage accepted it without question.
If the loaner had been hit, whilst parked on the road, would my insurance have had to deal with it, or the dealerships, as the vehicle was obviously in my temporary use?
Cheers, Mark
bradders said:
If the loaner had been hit, whilst parked on the road, would my insurance have had to deal with it, or the dealerships, as the vehicle was obviously in my temporary use?
Cheers, Mark
Your company insurance would cover you fully comp for the time you are driving it.
The hirers policy would cover it from the point you left it unattended if someone drove into it.
Charisma said: You will not be able to drive the car.
The reason is simple, the car needs it's own insurance policy. The car must have an existing policy covering it in order for your own insurance to cover it.
Many people have said this, but I'm not at all sure this is true unless the car is kept on the road when it's not being driven. It certainly dosen't mention this limitation on my insurance policy.
However, if you bought a second car, it would belong to you and you would not be insured to drive it. Also the car is covered for 3rd party only.
madcop said: If your girlfriend is the owner, then your own insurance will cover you to drive it at third party risk. As soon as you park it anywhere, it will not be covered. If it happens to be parked on a road, both you and your girlfriend will be liable for offences of keeping a vehicle on a road with no insurance (lots of points for both of you). Her because she allowed you to do it and you for doing it.
That is your major problem.
So what happens if you are driving under these circumstances, parking legally off the road at each end of the journey, then you get pulled by a copper who tells you to get out of the car? Are you then uninsured, or are you OK as long as you stay by the car? Should you tell the copper that you will not get out, and if he makes you get out, then he will be guilty himself of "allowing you to leave an unisured vehicle on the road"?
Charisma said: You will not be able to drive the car.
The reason is simple, the car needs it's own insurance policy. The car must have an existing policy covering it in order for your own insurance to cover it.
Think about it, if this was not the case then you would never need to insure a second or a third car. You could buy any additional car of your choice and drive it.
Wrong, wrong, and wrong again. He will be able to drive it, the car does not need it's own policy for him to drive it, insured against third-party risks only, as long as his own policy states he is allowed to drive any vehicle not belonging to or hired by him. If you buy a second car, you own it, therefore the driving other cars clause does not apply.
Also, here's a brainteaser for you... If you were to buy a new car without part exchanging your old one, and transferred the insurance to the new car, then the old car could not be driven (by anyone). How does the prospective new owner take it for a test drive?
Either the prospective owner drives it on his own insurance, if he has the relevant cover (third-party only, VERY dodgy if you're the seller) or the seller covers the car as a temporary additional vehicle on his own policy.
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