Discussion
Hi, I've just been caught by the same mobile camera twice (in different locations), while dashing to hospital to see my wife, who was critically ill and recently passed away.
The first time I was on cruise control at 34 mph on the speedo which is exactly 30 mph true as checked with two sat nav gps systems. I was done for 37 mph which I WAS NOT DOING! I saw the van miles ahead, checked my speed and carried on. I wrote to the Sussex "Safety" (that's a joke) Camera unit. They sent a photo back supposedly proving their point. There are four other vehicles in the picture, one going the other way, with mine central. Is it possible please that the camera picked up a false reading from another vehicle, or a reflection?
I was kindly let off a second ticket as I could prove that I was phoned by the hospital with a request to get there asap (unfortunately got there too late). However, this time I was speeding. The ticket said 36 mph, and I WAS doing 40 on the speedo without cruise control, so the cop was fair.
All this is after well over 35 years of no convictions or offences. Due to the pressures of funeral arrangements etc etc I paid the fixed penalty, and then got a letter saying that as I hadn't paid they would take me to court. I phoned and told them what I thought of them.
I have needed the help of the Police 3 times in the past, and they let me down 100%. There is only one thing they can do efficiently, and that is to hound innocent motorists for insignificant speeding offences.
In a modern car, if you are concentrating on the road ahead, it only takes a few moments to let your speed fluctuate by a few miles an hour and get a ticket. How are you supposed to drive safely with your eyes constantly on the speedo? All the enjoyment has gone from driving. Even with cruise control on, I have got a fine and 3 points when I WAS NOT SPEEDING. The intention to prosecute was signed by the Chief Superintendent, so I questioned this. They replied that it was by or "on behalf of The Chief Constable of Sussex Police" so would stand. Any ideas regarding the accuracy, or innacuracy of the mobile cameras would be much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.
The first time I was on cruise control at 34 mph on the speedo which is exactly 30 mph true as checked with two sat nav gps systems. I was done for 37 mph which I WAS NOT DOING! I saw the van miles ahead, checked my speed and carried on. I wrote to the Sussex "Safety" (that's a joke) Camera unit. They sent a photo back supposedly proving their point. There are four other vehicles in the picture, one going the other way, with mine central. Is it possible please that the camera picked up a false reading from another vehicle, or a reflection?
I was kindly let off a second ticket as I could prove that I was phoned by the hospital with a request to get there asap (unfortunately got there too late). However, this time I was speeding. The ticket said 36 mph, and I WAS doing 40 on the speedo without cruise control, so the cop was fair.
All this is after well over 35 years of no convictions or offences. Due to the pressures of funeral arrangements etc etc I paid the fixed penalty, and then got a letter saying that as I hadn't paid they would take me to court. I phoned and told them what I thought of them.
I have needed the help of the Police 3 times in the past, and they let me down 100%. There is only one thing they can do efficiently, and that is to hound innocent motorists for insignificant speeding offences.
In a modern car, if you are concentrating on the road ahead, it only takes a few moments to let your speed fluctuate by a few miles an hour and get a ticket. How are you supposed to drive safely with your eyes constantly on the speedo? All the enjoyment has gone from driving. Even with cruise control on, I have got a fine and 3 points when I WAS NOT SPEEDING. The intention to prosecute was signed by the Chief Superintendent, so I questioned this. They replied that it was by or "on behalf of The Chief Constable of Sussex Police" so would stand. Any ideas regarding the accuracy, or innacuracy of the mobile cameras would be much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.
Sorry to hear of your loss.
It's harsh, but I think circumstances like that aren't a reason not to be prosecuted (in the eyes of the law) - but are good mitigation.
You do seem to be very sure of what speed you're doing for somebody arguing that you can't drive safely whilst watching your speedo.
Cruise control does not accurately control speed, it sets a minimum speed (IIRC) - and is often fallable to downhill stretches (i.e. does not apply the brakes).
It's harsh, but I think circumstances like that aren't a reason not to be prosecuted (in the eyes of the law) - but are good mitigation.
You do seem to be very sure of what speed you're doing for somebody arguing that you can't drive safely whilst watching your speedo.
Cruise control does not accurately control speed, it sets a minimum speed (IIRC) - and is often fallable to downhill stretches (i.e. does not apply the brakes).
My sympathies.
Could you scan and post the evidential photo? (with your particulars edited out of course)
Yeah, undetected slip error (click for link)
madmaninshed said:
The first time I was on cruise control at 34 mph on the speedo which is exactly 30 mph true as checked with two sat nav gps systems. I was done for 37 mph which I WAS NOT DOING! I saw the van miles ahead, checked my speed and carried on. I wrote to the Sussex "Safety" (that's a joke) Camera unit. They sent a photo back supposedly proving their point. There are four other vehicles in the picture, one going the other way, with mine central. Is it possible please that the camera picked up a false reading from another vehicle, or a reflection?
Could you scan and post the evidential photo? (with your particulars edited out of course)
madmaninshed said:
Any ideas regarding the accuracy, or innacuracy of the mobile cameras would be much appreciated. Thanks, Paul.
Yeah, undetected slip error (click for link)
I was ABSOLUTELY SURE of my speed. The road is perfectly flat along the seafront and my VW Caravelle is about as aerodynamic as a brick, so only goes overspeed on cruise down a good slope. I was on cruise control at 34 on the speedo, and when I saw the camera van way ahead, glanced down at the speedo. Because this is bang on 30 mph true speed, it was not necessary to brake or slow down. I have been through every camera since at the same speed since without being flashed. The camera was faulty or picked up a reflection. I have since sold my vehicle to a Police Officer, who was not aware of any particular problems with the camera, but said that if he had stopped me in his patrol car on either occasion (if I had been speeding), he would have let me off, and subject to other pressures, would have put his blue light on and escorted me to the intensive care unit. So there are some very decent Policemen out there!
If you are 100% sure of your speed then it will be slip error from the camera operator. The establishment have their head in the sand on the issue and you have zero chance of avoiding prosecution by arguing that it is an error in the reading. The entire system from operator, police, CPS and courts assume they are 100% accurate. That is why all four of them are partners in the Scamera Pratnership. It makes it easy to ensure consistent propaganda (as is normally the NHS)
Thanks Bluepolarbear, that is totally in line with what the policeman said. He told me not to dispute the speed because I'd simply get done. Now surely that is why I am so blxxdy wound up by such a relatively trivial matter. I have paid the fine, I've got the points, but I am absolutely damned if I'm going to accept it, because I WASN'T SPEEDING. If the Police, Scamera team and Courts are going to cover up the fact that their equipment is crap, then I'm going to collect evidence that will eventually expose them. If anyone has any evidence to support the fact that the mobile cameras can give an incorrect reading, I'd be very grateful.
Thanks, Paul.
Thanks, Paul.
james_j said:
remember it's for them to prove, it's their allegation.
Unfortunately not james, you are guilty till you can prove otherwise, which is why you are dissuaded from your day in court with veiled threats and warnings of huge fines.
It is basically immoral and the basis for many arguments here on PH. Have a look on pepipoo.com for good advice
Sounds EXACTLY like 'slip effect'. It's definitely real - I have seen it with my own eyes when I went along to the filming of 'Tonight with Trevor MacDonald' last year.
I consider that it is highly important that you write to your MP about it. Ultimately LTI20.20 is more likely to be beaten politically than in a court of law.
It is also an excellent newspaper story (because of the human interest angle), but probably not yet.
PLEASE keep me posted with developments. psmith@safespeed.org.uk / 01862 893030.
I consider that it is highly important that you write to your MP about it. Ultimately LTI20.20 is more likely to be beaten politically than in a court of law.
It is also an excellent newspaper story (because of the human interest angle), but probably not yet.
PLEASE keep me posted with developments. psmith@safespeed.org.uk / 01862 893030.
Madmaninshed - sorry to hear all of this.
If you don't know who Paul at Safespeed is, then pop over to www.safespeed.org.uk/. Paul is the real deal and possibly your strongest ally.
There's plenty of evidence the LTI 20-20 is a piece of
. ITV and Daily Mail are both keen LTI 20-20 bashers 
If you don't know who Paul at Safespeed is, then pop over to www.safespeed.org.uk/. Paul is the real deal and possibly your strongest ally.
There's plenty of evidence the LTI 20-20 is a piece of
. ITV and Daily Mail are both keen LTI 20-20 bashers madmaninshed said:
Thanks Paul, the calibration certificate says LTI 20-20 TS/M speed measuring device.Laser Technology Inc ser no 014503, so you are right. I'll have a look. Cheers, Paul.
I would very much like to see that certificate. I run a calibration department and am doubting wether or not they apply basic calibration lab procedures etc. Any chance you could post a scan of it?
puggit said:
Madmaninshed - sorry to hear all of this.
If you don't know who Paul at Safespeed is, then pop over to www.safespeed.org.uk/. Paul is the real deal and possibly your strongest ally.
There's plenty of evidence the LTI 20-20 is a piece of. ITV and Daily Mail are both keen LTI 20-20 bashers
If you don't know who Paul at Safespeed is, then pop over to www.safespeed.org.uk/. Paul is the real deal and possibly your strongest ally.
There's plenty of evidence the LTI 20-20 is a piece of
. ITV and Daily Mail are both keen LTI 20-20 bashers Yup, your circumstances would make good copy for the papers, if you choose to take that route
I have had a look at the info on the dodgy LTI20-20. What a crap piece of kit. It certainly has it's moments with stationery walls doing 58!! that answers my question. I wasn't speeding and I'm not going mad (although known as madmaninshed).
I shall write to my MP as soon as I find out who the hell he (or she) is.
I shall write to my MP as soon as I find out who the hell he (or she) is.
I'll get my son to scan the calibration certificate, and also will try to do the same with the photo of me supposedly speeding. There was a whole line of cars, and we were all moving at about the same speed...wonder if they all got nicked?
Thanks everyone for all your help. My son says he'll e-mail me the documents with a link, so that they can be viewed on the forum....???glad he knows what he's doing (that's him in the passenger seat when the photo gets there!)
Thanks everyone for all your help. My son says he'll e-mail me the documents with a link, so that they can be viewed on the forum....???glad he knows what he's doing (that's him in the passenger seat when the photo gets there!)
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