RE: Speed trap penalty screw-up
Tuesday 5th September 2006
The camera never lies...The police have had to tear up 270 speeding tickets, after failing to adjust a speed camera following a change of speed limit -- upwards.
Speed trap penalty screw-up
Police to refund hundreds of fines
The camera never lies...
The A27 in front of Fareham College, Portsmouth, was a 30mph zone but the signs hadn't been changed to reflect a new 40mph limit. So the police snapped hundreds of motorists who appeared to be driving above the posted limit -- when in fact, they weren't.
About half of the drivers paid the fines and took the three-point penalty on the chin, while others refused and took the risk of legal proceedings. The mix-up only came to might after one woman, an emergency services driver who wanted to preserve her unblemished licence, appealed. Council officers then realised that he posted speed limit did not match that on the paperwork. They told the police in writing -- who insist that they never received the letter.
Finally, admitting the mistake, the police have refunded all fines and wiped all penalty points wrong attributed.
Discussion
So it was a 30 then changed to a 40 and people were caught speeding? Shirley if they were obeying the old 30 limit then there would've been no problem?
Or do they mean they forgot to change the speed camera to the 40 limit rather than the signs?
Or do they mean they forgot to change the speed camera to the 40 limit rather than the signs?
Edited by nickjm on Tuesday 5th September 11:38
From the article, it seems that it used to be a 30 zone, so had 30 signs, and a 30 threshold on the revenue camera.
The speed limit was then changed upwards
to a 40mph zone, but neither the signs, nor the camera were changed.
Basically, the ambulance driver dug VERY VERY deep in the technicalities box, and discovered that the council and police had effectively ignored the change, thus rendering all tickets void.
Two points of further interest:
1) 50% of people simply rolled over and increased their insurance for the next five years
2) If someone has been doing 44 in the 30, were they still nicked after the mistake was uncovered?
The speed limit was then changed upwards
to a 40mph zone, but neither the signs, nor the camera were changed. Basically, the ambulance driver dug VERY VERY deep in the technicalities box, and discovered that the council and police had effectively ignored the change, thus rendering all tickets void.
Two points of further interest:
1) 50% of people simply rolled over and increased their insurance for the next five years
2) If someone has been doing 44 in the 30, were they still nicked after the mistake was uncovered?
nickjm said:
So it was a 30 then changed to a 40 and people were caught speeding? Shirley if they were obeying the old 30 limit then there would've been no problem?
Or do they mean they forgot to change the speed camera to the 40 limit rather than the signs?
Or do they mean they forgot to change the speed camera to the 40 limit rather than the signs?
Edited by nickjm on Tuesday 5th September 11:38
The article makes no sense at all!
hayesey said:
I think it's supposed to say that the camera hadn't been changed to reflect the new limit. Not the signs as it currently says.
So the limit was changed, the signs were changed but the camera was still set to a 30 threshold.
So the limit was changed, the signs were changed but the camera was still set to a 30 threshold.
But that doesn't make sense either. So if you went into a 40 zone, doing 40, and the camera got you, NIP arrives in post saying you were doing 40 in a 30 and you would simply pay it and take the points? Because that what it said other people are doing.
If the signs had NOT been changed then the speed limit of 30 would have applied. The speed limit on any road is that of the last speed sign you passed. Surely this should read that the scamera wasn't changed and the 50% who paid up just didn't know where the last speed sign they passed was and what it said. Speed signs are 99% of the time placed at only two types of position, 1:- boundary between buildings and fields, 2:- at a junction (can be before or after the junction). Once you know where they are sited it is very easy to scan for them. I am a DSA ADI (driving instructor) my learners always know what the speed limit is using the above knowledge.
The link in the story goes to the original article, which seems to be quite certain that the signs still say 30mph (even now). This would explain why they did not get too many complaints, as many of those caught probably thought they were indeed speeding and so just went ahead and coughed up the cash.
Interestingly the article also goes on to state that the lady responsible for bringing the error to light appeared to be claiming a faulty speedometer as her defence and not an incorrectly set camera. Sounds to me like it is the cops that got the short straw with this one and all those ticketed got a lucky break.
Interestingly the article also goes on to state that the lady responsible for bringing the error to light appeared to be claiming a faulty speedometer as her defence and not an incorrectly set camera. Sounds to me like it is the cops that got the short straw with this one and all those ticketed got a lucky break.
summit7 said:
If the signs had NOT been changed then the speed limit of 30 would have applied. The speed limit on any road is that of the last speed sign you passed................................................................................................ I am a DSA ADI (driving instructor) my learners always know what the speed limit is using the above knowledge.
The signs don't mean a thing if the paperwork says something else , which I believe is what has happened here.
Perhaps it would be useful to teach your pupils not to believe everything they see/read. Government's/councils/police are NOT always right.
summit7 said:
If the signs had NOT been changed then the speed limit of 30 would have applied. The speed limit on any road is that of the last speed sign you passed. Surely this should read that the scamera wasn't changed and the 50% who paid up just didn't know where the last speed sign they passed was and what it said. Speed signs are 99% of the time placed at only two types of position, 1:- boundary between buildings and fields, 2:- at a junction (can be before or after the junction). Once you know where they are sited it is very easy to scan for them. I am a DSA ADI (driving instructor) my learners always know what the speed limit is using the above knowledge.
Not true. Speed limits are set by law, rather than by signage, AFAIK.
The absence of signage would normally indicate a 30 zone, but if there are 30 signs there, then its usually a sign that its an unnatural 30 (i.e. raised risk from children etc, and someone feels the need to emphasise) one.
The article tries to say (badly) that the appeal came from someone who looked up the legal position of the speed limit, found it to be 40, and that there was a mismatch between the law and the real world. Like I said, digging deep in the excuses barrel, but when its your job at stake, then fair do's...
ah Bedford Rascal you crack me up. Nice one with the "and finally extra news"
I think randlemarcus has it right with the digging deep in the technilaties box, coupled with a bit of carp reporting and someone else being economical with the actualite.
Anyway what I don't get is this. Is there a single person on this earth that does not honestly believe that if the limit had gone from 40>30 the signs would have been in place on the first day, not still waiting to be done yonks later?
prats, the lot of them.
I think randlemarcus has it right with the digging deep in the technilaties box, coupled with a bit of carp reporting and someone else being economical with the actualite.
Anyway what I don't get is this. Is there a single person on this earth that does not honestly believe that if the limit had gone from 40>30 the signs would have been in place on the first day, not still waiting to be done yonks later?
prats, the lot of them.
summit7 said:
If the signs had NOT been changed then the speed limit of 30 would have applied. The speed limit on any road is that of the last speed sign you passed. Surely this should read that the scamera wasn't changed and the 50% who paid up just didn't know where the last speed sign they passed was and what it said. Speed signs are 99% of the time placed at only two types of position, 1:- boundary between buildings and fields, 2:- at a junction (can be before or after the junction). Once you know where they are sited it is very easy to scan for them. I am a DSA ADI (driving instructor) my learners always know what the speed limit is using the above knowledge.
I'm prepared to believe that you're an ADI DSI, but I'm not convinced that anything else you said is true.
Are there you have it, you try and give some PRACTICAL advice on the siting of signs and the cynics are out to get you. Prove it to yourself when you go out on your next drive, boundaries fields/buildings and at junctions (before and after) is where the signs normally are - enjoy looking for them.
summit7 said:
Are there you have it, you try and give some PRACTICAL advice on the siting of signs and the cynics are out to get you. Prove it to yourself when you go out on your next drive, boundaries fields/buildings and at junctions (before and after) is where the signs normally are - enjoy looking for them.
Calm down.. You are, of course correct as to the siting of signs, and this is good, useful knowledge, so thanks for sharing. I remember being told this by my diving instructor, and it makes for less frantic scanning for speed limits in the early days. Good skills. Also worth reminding them about the white lines thing, in that the lines change depending on the perceived risk by the planners. Got that one from a Mazda driver training day, and has stood me in excellent stead ever since.
The fact that I disagreed with your statement about the signs being the speed limit shouldnt stop you continuing to provide excellent tuition to the beginners.
I mst say I've been in a simlar situation.
There used to be a section of the M4 in S.Wales by the Celtic Manor hotel that was 50mph for *ages* due to supposed roadworks.
I like thousands of other motorists got speeding tickets since there was a speed camera still set for 50mph but AFTER the 50 mph zone ended. i.e you sped up to 70 (or so) after the roadwords (and the nat speed limit sign) and then get a ticket for doing over 50mph...
I was unaware of this and paid my fine like most poeople (or numpties, if you prefer) and was only told about it by a friend who had seen an article in the Daily telegraph about it.
I got my money and points back after appealing, but did the scamera partnership go through their records to refund all those people incorrectly done?
Did they ar*e!
There used to be a section of the M4 in S.Wales by the Celtic Manor hotel that was 50mph for *ages* due to supposed roadworks.
I like thousands of other motorists got speeding tickets since there was a speed camera still set for 50mph but AFTER the 50 mph zone ended. i.e you sped up to 70 (or so) after the roadwords (and the nat speed limit sign) and then get a ticket for doing over 50mph...
I was unaware of this and paid my fine like most poeople (or numpties, if you prefer) and was only told about it by a friend who had seen an article in the Daily telegraph about it.
I got my money and points back after appealing, but did the scamera partnership go through their records to refund all those people incorrectly done?
Did they ar*e!
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff