12 points - automatic loss of license?
Discussion
Hoping someone can help,
Friend of mine has had an NIP through. Not a major offence - 3 points and £60. Under normal circumstances, take it and move on. However, he's already got 9 points so this would take him up to the 12. Is this license loss time/ban? The major problem is that driving is absolutely crucial to his job and he's self-employed so could be a real major problem for him. Aside from the 'well should have been more careful' (believe me, he's already had this from us!), if he went to court and explained the situation, can he retain his driving status and if so, would the fine be increased etc as an 'alternative'?
The slight side issue to it is that it's possible his wife was driving but they genuinely can't remember. Would a photo show enough detail? I presume he can request this evidence?
Thanks in advance
Friend of mine has had an NIP through. Not a major offence - 3 points and £60. Under normal circumstances, take it and move on. However, he's already got 9 points so this would take him up to the 12. Is this license loss time/ban? The major problem is that driving is absolutely crucial to his job and he's self-employed so could be a real major problem for him. Aside from the 'well should have been more careful' (believe me, he's already had this from us!), if he went to court and explained the situation, can he retain his driving status and if so, would the fine be increased etc as an 'alternative'?
The slight side issue to it is that it's possible his wife was driving but they genuinely can't remember. Would a photo show enough detail? I presume he can request this evidence?
Thanks in advance
Mate of mine had 15 points about 8 years back, combination of SP50, SP30, IN10. Went to court without a solicitor, suited and booted, begged the magistrate. Big fine and allowed to continue driving. Went to pay fine at the court, they told him to go to the town hall. Went to the town hall, they told him to go to the court. Didn't pay fine, never heard anything since.
Parrot of Doom said:
Mate of mine had 15 points about 8 years back, combination of SP50, SP30, IN10. Went to court without a solicitor, suited and booted, begged the magistrate. Big fine and allowed to continue driving. Went to pay fine at the court, they told him to go to the town hall. Went to the town hall, they told him to go to the court. Didn't pay fine, never heard anything since.
Result!
I had 12 points last year. I know it is normally an automatic 6 month ban unless I could prove exceptional hardship.
Now, the Magistrate does not care (and it is not allowed to!) what that means to you, but may/does care what it means to those dependent on your income.
In my case, I laid it on a bit and said that I would lose my job (letter from employer backing that up) and therefore would lose my house. Obviously this would impact on my wife and children who would end up without a roof over their heads.
Got away with a 1 month ban, very happy apart from the ratherlarge premiums I now have to pay for car insurance!
Hope that helps.
Edited by clownfish on Wednesday 6th September 22:14
If you are on 9 points and an additional 3 for the speeding will invoke the totting rule then any Conditional Offer will not take place and Court hearing instead will be the order of the day.
At such a hearing then if you can prove that any dsiqualification will cause xtreme hardship - you will have to bring proof of this i.e. letter from the Boss etc. then Mags can take this into account and not invoke the disqualification that normally take place.
Have a word with CAB Solicitor,
dvd
At such a hearing then if you can prove that any dsiqualification will cause xtreme hardship - you will have to bring proof of this i.e. letter from the Boss etc. then Mags can take this into account and not invoke the disqualification that normally take place.
Have a word with CAB Solicitor,
dvd
Parrot of Doom said:
Mate of mine had 15 points about 8 years back, combination of SP50, SP30, IN10. Went to court without a solicitor, suited and booted, begged the magistrate. Big fine and allowed to continue driving. Went to pay fine at the court, they told him to go to the town hall. Went to the town hall, they told him to go to the court. Didn't pay fine, never heard anything since.
That pisses me off. Back in 2000 I was on 11 points and was up for 107 in a 70. I got suited & booted, had a solicitor, grovelled, told the I WOULD loose my job, and got 6 points (so 17 total), a 6 month totting up ban and a 150 quid fine.
Dwight VanDriver said:
If you are on 9 points and an additional 3 for the speeding will invoke the totting rule then any Conditional Offer will not take place and Court hearing instead will be the order of the day.
At such a hearing then if you can prove that any dsiqualification will cause xtreme hardship - you will have to bring proof of this i.e. letter from the Boss etc. then Mags can take this into account and not invoke the disqualification that normally take place.
Have a word with CAB Solicitor,
dvd
At such a hearing then if you can prove that any dsiqualification will cause xtreme hardship - you will have to bring proof of this i.e. letter from the Boss etc. then Mags can take this into account and not invoke the disqualification that normally take place.
Have a word with CAB Solicitor,
dvd
FYI loosing your job is not considered extreem hardship unless you have a partner and preferably children to support. That is what the court secretary told the magistrates in my case after I argued I would loose my job.
Many thanks for all the replies. Got a bit more info to add to it now!!!
Turns out that 3 of his 9 points are due to be wiped off...at the end of this month! So as it stands today, he's on 12 points. But at the end of the month, he'd be back down to 9! When would any punishment etc actually come into effect? Is there any way to defer these latest 3 until he's back down to 6 thus avoiding the totting up ban?
Turns out that 3 of his 9 points are due to be wiped off...at the end of this month! So as it stands today, he's on 12 points. But at the end of the month, he'd be back down to 9! When would any punishment etc actually come into effect? Is there any way to defer these latest 3 until he's back down to 6 thus avoiding the totting up ban?
kenp said:
clownfish said:
Just for clarity, the points come in to effect on date of conviction, not date of offence.
....except the ones that would take you to the limit.They count from date of offence!
Sorry Kenp, that is incorrect information, date of conviction is the only dates taken in to account.
No one cares when the actual offence happened, it's just when it when it went to court and you were convicted.
Cheers
CF
Edited by clownfish on Wednesday 6th September 19:12
clownfish said:
kenp said:
clownfish said:
Just for clarity, the points come in to effect on date of conviction, not date of offence.
....except the ones that would take you to the limit.They count from date of offence!
Sorry Kenp, that is incorrect information, date of conviction is the only dates taken in to account.
No one cares when the actual offence happened, it's just when it when it went to court and you were convicted.
Wrong I believe!
Date of offence is what counts. Otherwise what happens when you get conditional offers? as there is no date of conviction?
clownfish said:
kenp said:
clownfish said:
Just for clarity, the points come in to effect on date of conviction, not date of offence.
....except the ones that would take you to the limit.They count from date of offence!
Sorry Kenp, that is incorrect information, date of conviction is the only dates taken in to account.
No one cares when the actual offence happened, it's just when it when it went to court and you were convicted.
Cheers
CF
Edited by clownfish on Wednesday 6th September 19:12
Unfortunately VH's link does not shed any light on the issue.
I still maintain I am right, because if it were otherwise, people would simply delay their court appearance (holiday, ill, hospital) until their oldest endorsement dropped off under the three year rule. This is also the reason why endorsements remain on your licence for 4 years.
shuvitupya said:
clownfish said:
kenp said:
clownfish said:
Just for clarity, the points come in to effect on date of conviction, not date of offence.
....except the ones that would take you to the limit.They count from date of offence!
Sorry Kenp, that is incorrect information, date of conviction is the only dates taken in to account.
No one cares when the actual offence happened, it's just when it when it went to court and you were convicted.
Wrong I believe!
Date of offence is what counts. Otherwise what happens when you get conditional offers? as there is no date of conviction?
OK, so you know more than a solicitor specialising in traffic / motoring law. Good luck to the people that rely on PH for their information!
I think you will find under a conditional offer, the conviction dates and offence dates are equal to each other. If it goes to court, the conviction date is the only date that matters, just like the date used under a conditional offer. If you go to court, until you are found guilty or plead guilty, you are obviously not guilty in the eyes of the law.
Please carry on debating, just don't try getting your brief to agree with you!
clownfish said:
OK, so you know more than a solicitor specialising in traffic / motoring law. Good luck to the people that rely on PH for their information!
Are you? Does it say that in your profile? How is anyone meant to know that? Until someone identifies their credentials their opinion is worth no more than anyone else's and is considered layman's opinion and equally likely to be right or wrong.
I am just letting you know the answer, choose to ignore the advice if you wish. My advice in this matter is not an opinion.
I would hate for the original poster or others to regret any actions they may take based on some of the fictional advice that has been produced in this post.
Anyway, enough said already, I will leave this post alone now and let you guys decide what you think the law is.
I would hate for the original poster or others to regret any actions they may take based on some of the fictional advice that has been produced in this post.
Anyway, enough said already, I will leave this post alone now and let you guys decide what you think the law is.
Edited by clownfish on Wednesday 6th September 22:06
clownfish said:
I am just letting you know the answer, choose to ignore the advice if you wish. My advice in this matter is not an opinion.
No, no, you misunderstand. What I meant was that it's a bit unfair to berate people thinking they "know more than a solicitor specialising in traffic / motoring law" when they were merely stating what they understood the situation to be (as a layman) when as far as they knew so were you (since you hadn't leapt into a phonebox and emerged as 'Super Solicitor (specialising in traffic / motoring law) Man' at that point). clownfish said:
Anyway, enough said already, I will leave this post alone now and let you guys decide what you think the law is.
Blimey, did you get extra training in being conceited and supercilious, or did you find you had a natural aptitude for it? 
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