Can I concentrate on driving again now?

[Fats25]

In June 2004 I received my verdict from the local court that I was being rewarded with 6 points and a £350 fine for speeding, for an offence on October 4th 2003. This was to be added to the 3 points I received on October 17th 2003. Not my best month of driving.

For totting up purposes (I know they stay on licence for 4 years), am I now only on 3 points (and clean in two weeks!)?

Basically - for totting up, is it date of offence, or conviction?

(Being facetious - it would be lovely to be able to concentrate on driving rather that just on looking out for speed cameras and scamera vans!

Someone give me some good news, or let me know if I have another two weeks of being on the 9 point tightrope!

[pmanson]

As I understand it: Points count for totting up purposes for 3 years and are on your licence for 4 years. You have to tell the insurance company for 5 years though.

Phill (3 points 12/02/02)

[seefive]

Just been up to one of the government websites. Is it date of offence or date of conviction? They state that it depends on the type of offence.

I've pasted in their guidance below. In reading, the key difference seems to be that for the two more serious categories of offence identified, it is date of conviction. For all other offences, it is date of offence.

HTH.

The amount of time in which an endorsement remains on your licence depends on the type of offence committed. The date in which the endorsement starts also depends on the type of offence.

Endorsements must remain on a licence for 11 years from date of conviction if the offence is:

* drinking/drugs and driving (shown on the licence as DR10, DR20, DR30 and DR80)
* causing death by careless driving whilst under the influence of drink/drugs (shown on the licence as CD40, CD50 and CD60)
* causing death by careless driving, then failing to provide a specimen for analysis (shown on the licence as CD70)

Endorsements must remain on a licence for four years from date of conviction if the offence is:

* reckless/dangerous driving (shown on the licence as DD40, DD60 and DD80)
* offences resulting in disqualification
* disqualified from holding a full licence until a driving test has been passed

Endorsements must remain on a licence for four years from the date of offence in all other cases.

[catso]

Pretty sure it's date of offence, doesn't make sense otherwise as the date of conviction can be much later.

[eccles]

out of intrest, what the idea behind the points not being valid after three years, but not being able to remove them until after 4 years?

[junior mint]

If you do an insurance quote online you'll see that the insurance companies ask specifically for date of conviction for any endorsements.

Edited by junior mint on Thursday 5th October 12:52

[Fats25]

junior mint said:

If you do an insurance quote online you'll see that the insurance companies ask specifically for date of conviction for any endorsements.

Edited by junior mint on Thursday 5th October 12:52

Not always! My bike insurance asked explicitly for date of conviction, my car insurance asked for date of offence.

Also insurance companies do their own thing anyway, hence the 5 years they ask for - any excuse to rip off for more money!

I am interested from the losing my licence point of view through totting up process in the 3 year totting up period, not the insurance companies own rules.

eccles said:

out of intrest, what the idea behind the points not being valid after three years, but not being able to remove them until after 4 years?

That is a good question. Anyone know why?

I am guessing that it has something to do with when points used to be socially unacceptable - and not the norm. i.e. if you had 12+ points in 3 years, then you were obviously doing something wrong in your driving, and the extra year was to think about what you had done! That is the best I can come up with!

Additionally why would anyone pay to have points removed from their licence? What is the point of paying for it?

[stubby pete]

eccles said:

out of intrest, what the idea behind the points not being valid after three years, but not being able to remove them until after 4 years?

POints go off after three years, but the endorsement stays for four.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Spot on Fats and Stubby

Section 45 Road Traffic Offdenders Act 1988:

Endorsement remains effective

if an order made for disqualification until four years has elapsed since CONVICTION

but if no such Order is made since four years has elapsed from the COMMISSION of the offence.

This is for the 'lighter' offences mentioned above. For the 'heavier' stuff remains effective until 11 years has elapsed since the CONVICTION.

dvd

[Fats25]

Thanks for all responses to this! I am now sure that I am only driving with 3 points for totting up purposes. So that is great news for me.

I think all the details I needed were here all along !

www.direct.gov.uk/Motoring/DriverLicensing/EndorsementsAndDisqualifications/EndorsementsDisqualificationsArticles/fs/en?CONTENT_ID=4022550&chk=P3SAoK

However it has left me with a couple of questions that have come from this thread:-

1) What is the impact of the endorsement being there for another year? What is the point? Surely the important piece for a driver is the totting up piece - the extra year is irrelevant. At the moment, unless someone tells me why I should be worried, I don't care about the extra year. Or am I missing something here?

2) Why would you want to apply for points to be taken off licence after endorsement is removed? What benefit would it give you?

[eccles]

stubby pete said:

eccles said:

out of intrest, what the idea behind the points not being valid after three years, but not being able to remove them until after 4 years?

POints go off after three years, but the endorsement stays for four.

yes, i know that, thats what i wrote.

i was wondering why the endorsment stays on your licence for a year after the point are valid.

[7db]

Fats25 said:

Not always! My bike insurance asked explicitly for date of conviction, my car insurance asked for date of offence.

If you accepted an FPN were you really "convicted"? Or did you receive an administrative penalty (points) instead of a prosecution and conviction.