RE: Radar detectors become illegal
RE: Radar detectors become illegal
Monday 9th October 2006

Radar detectors become illegal

Road Safety Bill to enter statute books


Radar-based detector: illegal
Radar-based detector: illegal
GPS-based detector: OK
GPS-based detector: OK

Graduated fixed penalties for traffic offences and the banning of laser and radar detectors could become law today.

The Road Safety Bill, which goes before the UK's House of Commons today for its final reading, will introduce a number of provisions relating to speeding.

These include:

  • Graduated fixed penalty tickets -- six-point fixed penalties for some speed camera offences, two of which will mean a default six-month ban under totting-up.
  • Re-training courses for speeding offenders -- courts will be able to offer those convicted of speeding to take a retraining course, paid for by the miscreant.
  • Ban speed camera jammers and detectors -- that rationale is that: "devices which interfere with or detect the proper functioning of such cameras have only one purpose: to tell drivers when they can break speed limits and get away with it. This is unacceptable, it prevents the police from carrying out their duties, and is a danger to other law-abiding road users." GPS-based devices remain legal.
  • Increased penalty for not identifying a driver -- the maximum penalty for failing to provide information about a driver's identity is less than the maximum for a speeding offence. That's going to change.
  • Power to grant exemptions from speed limits -- those that drive emergency vehicles must get training before being allowed to break speed limits.
  • Other provisions include the pilot introduction of a rest area, like the French 'aires' on autoroutes, better anti-clocking measures, and more policing of foreign drivers who break traffic laws.

Comment

But according to road safety campaign Safe Speed, MPs will vote for the bill "without ever knowing what thresholds may be required to invoke the six-point penalty. That is because the table of speeds and penalties does not yet exist. The Road Safety Bill empowers the Secretary of State to create and amend the table without further reference to Parliament."

According to Safe Speed, which described the situation as "astonishing", there are practical problems developing such a table of penalties.

The campaign said: "Suppose the six-point penalty applies above 45mph in a 30mph zone and in a particular case the police equipment recorded 46mph. With such close margins, it could not be proven in a court of law that the six-point offence had actually been committed - the police equipment may have been out by a couple of miles per hour."

As a result, said the campaign, the government sidestepped the problem by not revealing the table of penalties or the associated problems to MPs, although the Association of Chief Police Officers (ACPO) has raised the problem with Department for Transport (DfT).

Campaign founder Paul Smith said: "It is absurd that the speed camera programme will be strengthened just ten days after official figures revealed that only 1 in 20 crashes involve exceeding a speed limit. The speed camera programme has failed to improve road safety -- neither road deaths nor hospitalisations have fallen as expected. In fact we're ten years behind -- and moving backwards.

"I wonder how many MPs are aware that they are being bamboozled by a defective road safety policy? Department for Transport has long deceived the public, Parliament and probably themselves about the effectiveness of the speed camera programme. I guess the habits of a decade are hard to break, even when the evidence is overwhelming. And it is.

"Drivers have clearly had enough of speed cameras. They haven't made the road safer, and that's hardly surprising because massive resources are being focused on a tiny part of the road safety problem. It's time to pull the plug.

"It's clearly important that no one should drive too fast. Despite exceeding the speed limit being commonplace, most of us never drive too fast. This is because speed limits do not give an adequate definition of 'too fast'. On one occasion 30mph may be way too fast, but on another 40mph may be perfectly reasonable. Speed limits are actually a proxy measure for the desired behaviour - and that's where the problem lies. We have become obsessed with the proxy to the point of forgetting the desired behaviour."

Author
Discussion

20vt_mk2dub

Original Poster:

533 posts

257 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
I just cant believe what I'm reading any more, this country has gone rapidly down hill and the government/ police force no longer have any idea.

I'm ready to leave this country, and this is just helping me confirm that decision.

Ridiculous.

grumbledoak

32,571 posts

263 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Road Safety Bill said:

The Road Safety Bill empowers the Secretary of State to create and amend the table without further reference to Parliament."


Another nail in the coffin of accountable democracy here in the UK. Wonderful.

Gixer

4,463 posts

278 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
20vt_mk2dub said:
I just cant believe what I'm reading any more, this country has gone rapidly down hill and the government/ police force no longer have any idea.

I'm ready to leave this country, and this is just helping me confirm that decision.

Ridiculous.


You're not the only one. As soon as I'm in a position to do so I will be out of this police state

V8HSV

2,457 posts

282 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Does this mean RA2 will be illegal?

I'm up for leaving this country too!

jvaughan

6,025 posts

313 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Looks like I'll be next to you on the ferry mate ....

This country and its draconian laws .....laws for the sake of laws. really gets on my t1ts.

As a society, we have become ignorant, arrogent with no time for our families and friends. The State feeds on taxing the money earlers.. we pay tax on our money, and tax on the goods we buy.
Our roads are almost 50% safer today than they were 30 years ago dispite the volume of traffic increasing by over 500%
The prisions are full to capacity because we grant prisoners "human rights" ... Go to prison, take a degree !!!come out a doctor in philosophy !!.
Bread and water is what they should get!...

Bring back corporal punishment.

Im not even going anywhere near Jack Straw and the ethnic sh1t storm he's started

Right thats Monday ruined for me now...

Edited by jvaughan on Monday 9th October 11:53

diandmike

19 posts

243 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Does the government propose to refund the VAT that it was happy to levy when I bought my radar detector!

Steve_T

6,356 posts

302 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
I notice the driver identification speeding case, which is in the European Court of Human Rights, will not reconvene for another year or so. Call me a cynic, but I suspect HM Govt are trying to force the driver identification issue, while they still can. MCN mentioned it would be likely the Govt would lose the case, turning the current requirement to incriminate someone or face charges yourself on its head.

L100NYY

36,818 posts

273 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
What I don't understand is that these cameras are supposed to be located in accident/saftey blackspots right?

So why should it become illegal for us to know where these danger zones are?

Edited by L100NYY on Monday 9th October 12:09

Gixer

4,463 posts

278 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Makes you wonder why they are now banning radar detectors after all this time. I've always had one but on our roads these days they don't really offer as much protection - cameras - gps does that, laser well if you lucky you will be warned and as for radar last time I went through a radar (god help us) trap in this country was years ago. I wonder if we will see a surge of civilian/traffic warden speed traps using cheaper radar guns next year. Isnt it April next year when cameras/traps can once again be hidden and no longer painted yellowscratchchin

stsly

71 posts

245 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Agree with the above about the gov. and this country.. Our views and opinions aren't considered so how is this a democracy? Ohh we get to vote for the crap selection of parties that are on offer... Great!

Not planning on removing mine regardless of todays out come.. Maybe they should look at driver training more as a way of improving road saftey! they love cameras because they want our money generated through this cash cow!

darkblueturbo

113 posts

242 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
If Safe Speed is so against this new Road Safety Bill for focusing on the wrong things - as always - are they organising a protest against it?
Surely they should and we should all get involved?

apache

39,731 posts

314 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Gixer said:
Makes you wonder why they are now banning radar detectors after all this time.


Let's see if HATOs get a little more power

Linus27

152 posts

242 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
I to am fed up with this goverment, laws, policing etc. I feel unsafe in the country, all my money goes on tax or administration. Everything is so overpriced with charges going on everything. I am scared for the safety of my son as he grows up, goes to school etc. I hate what this country has become, peoples attitudes and I am also looking at a way to get out. Not sure how to though.

tigger1

8,476 posts

251 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Gixer said:
<snip> Isnt it April next year when cameras/traps can once again be hidden and no longer painted yellowscratchchin


Are they really? Christ on a bike (well, the rest of us will be).

Anyone got any links on this (about the hiding cameras becoming legal)?

Gixer

4,463 posts

278 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
It was on PH quite some time ago. The gov guidelines that cameras/traps should be made visible only run to 2007. Add to what was in MCN a couple of weeks ago (rural roads having sloooow speed limits put in place to discourage people from using them as an alternative to main (toll) roads)and its just gonna get worse

victormeldrew

8,293 posts

307 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
My little boy (6) came home from school the other week having done a "project" on road safety in the village where the school is. From what I can gather, the entire project actually consisted of them deciding where they would put the 20mph restrictions.

Nothing like getting them young eh?

20vt_mk2dub

Original Poster:

533 posts

257 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
victormeldrew said:
My little boy (6) came home from school the other week having done a "project" on road safety in the village where the school is. From what I can gather, the entire project actually consisted of them deciding where they would put the 20mph restrictions.

Nothing like getting them young eh?



Ah I wondered who came up with road policy these days, that seems to be the answer!

Dr S

5,155 posts

256 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
"Speed limits are actually a proxy measure for the desired behaviour - and that's where the problem lies. We have become obsessed with the proxy to the point of forgetting the desired behaviour"

Haven't read words more true than these...




EddandSam1

57 posts

241 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Ah more persecution of the motorist!

The government still can't believe that some of us still have the gall to drive a car and clog up their beautiful roads (not!) can they! Lets price everyone out shall we!

Meanwhile while us the generally law abiding citizens get taxed and screwed for more and more cash we rest safe in the knowledge the money we are paying will be used to pay for free holidays for twockers, illegal immigrants and those who all share 1 license using uninsured, un MOT'd and untaxed vehicles.

It all makes you wonder who has the best idea doesn't it?

sa_20v

4,114 posts

261 months

Monday 9th October 2006
quotequote all
Happy April fools day, no wait, it's October...welcome to Britain!