Police side I've not seen before.
Discussion
A few months ago we moved from Leeds over to the East Riding of Yorkshire.
We are in a rural village. A sleepy town, if you like.
On the main road, outside our estate, is a main "A" road.
Immediately as I turn from our estate there is a bus-stop. On the offside of this stop is a double white line.
I turned out, in August. There was a stationary bus, at the stop. A gap was left by people on the main road and I entered the gap, observed everything and overtook the stationary bus.
It seems that, 3 cars behind me, was a Police panda car.
200 yards down the road and I was stopped by this Panda.
"Why do you think I've stopped you, sonny?", said Mr.Plod. He was about 25, I'm 50.
"I haven't a clue, officer", said I.
"How long have you been driving, sonny?" said he.
"Please don't call me sonny, I'm as oild as your Dad".
.....
Anyway. He gave me a COFP notice of £60 and told me it would be 3 points, for overtaking the stationary bus, on the double white lines.
I nipped home and got my Highway Code out. It says, as I always thought, that what I did was OK:
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/10.htm#106
I went to the local police station to make a complaint.
After 2 hours I saw a Duty Sergeant. He said I needed to make the complaint to an Inspector. 2 more hours.
I made the complaint.
Today, I have a letter from Humberside Police, saying that everything is quashed. The Officer involved has "received Advice" and thanking me for accepting this option, rather than progressing through the Police Complaints Procedure.
I'm unaware of any such agreement from me. I thought I'd made a formal complaint.
Why was I stopped? Did "the Officer" know what he was doing, or not?
Have I formally complained, or not?
What a disgrace.
We are in a rural village. A sleepy town, if you like.
On the main road, outside our estate, is a main "A" road.
Immediately as I turn from our estate there is a bus-stop. On the offside of this stop is a double white line.
I turned out, in August. There was a stationary bus, at the stop. A gap was left by people on the main road and I entered the gap, observed everything and overtook the stationary bus.
It seems that, 3 cars behind me, was a Police panda car.
200 yards down the road and I was stopped by this Panda.
"Why do you think I've stopped you, sonny?", said Mr.Plod. He was about 25, I'm 50.
"I haven't a clue, officer", said I.
"How long have you been driving, sonny?" said he.
"Please don't call me sonny, I'm as oild as your Dad".
.....
Anyway. He gave me a COFP notice of £60 and told me it would be 3 points, for overtaking the stationary bus, on the double white lines.
I nipped home and got my Highway Code out. It says, as I always thought, that what I did was OK:
108: Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10mph or less.
Laws RTA sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/10.htm#106
I went to the local police station to make a complaint.
After 2 hours I saw a Duty Sergeant. He said I needed to make the complaint to an Inspector. 2 more hours.
I made the complaint.
Today, I have a letter from Humberside Police, saying that everything is quashed. The Officer involved has "received Advice" and thanking me for accepting this option, rather than progressing through the Police Complaints Procedure.
I'm unaware of any such agreement from me. I thought I'd made a formal complaint.
Why was I stopped? Did "the Officer" know what he was doing, or not?
Have I formally complained, or not?
What a disgrace.
Seems like a good result from here...usually it`s impossible to get them to agree that that may have been in the wrong...no need to string him up....
Sometimes it pays to dispute something...many people may have just paid up regardless.
Not an impressive performance from the plod...but there only human too...
Sometimes it pays to dispute something...many people may have just paid up regardless.
Not an impressive performance from the plod...but there only human too...
Edited by F.M on Monday 16th October 21:12
You have formaly compained and it would appear that what has happened is some form of local resolution which you would have agreed to in some way. It would depend on what was said in your conversation with the Inspector.
Although as I type this for the words 'advice' to have been used and the time it has taken I would think that the officer was issued a notice concerning the complaint. That it has been investigated and they have been found at fault. Thats why the ticket has been quoshed and they have been issued formal advice.
'Advice' is a formal notice issued normaly by complaints dept and remains on your file.
From the circs you explained the officer would not have faced a financial fine (this does sometimes happen) or requirement to resign.
Speaking from a Bib perspective the 'advice' is not a great thing to be given and is worse than it sounds. They can have impact on some internal applications and will be reflected in staff appraisals
Although as I type this for the words 'advice' to have been used and the time it has taken I would think that the officer was issued a notice concerning the complaint. That it has been investigated and they have been found at fault. Thats why the ticket has been quoshed and they have been issued formal advice.
'Advice' is a formal notice issued normaly by complaints dept and remains on your file.
From the circs you explained the officer would not have faced a financial fine (this does sometimes happen) or requirement to resign.
Speaking from a Bib perspective the 'advice' is not a great thing to be given and is worse than it sounds. They can have impact on some internal applications and will be reflected in staff appraisals
Thank you, I think.
I can scan you all a copy of the letter. It's certainly not apologetic, or anything.
All it says is that matters are finalised. No action will be taken against me and the officer has received formal advice. No apology or anything.
I've wasted 4 hours at Goole Police Station.
I've had 3 sleepless nights.
Now, they don't even have the decency to actually say "sorry".
I can scan you all a copy of the letter. It's certainly not apologetic, or anything.
All it says is that matters are finalised. No action will be taken against me and the officer has received formal advice. No apology or anything.
I've wasted 4 hours at Goole Police Station.
I've had 3 sleepless nights.
Now, they don't even have the decency to actually say "sorry".
sean5302 said:
Thank you, I think.
I can scan you all a copy of the letter. It's certainly not apologetic, or anything.
All it says is that matters are finalised. No action will be taken against me and the officer has received formal advice. No apology or anything.
I've wasted 4 hours at Goole Police Station.
I've had 3 sleepless nights.
Now, they don't even have the decency to actually say "sorry".
I can scan you all a copy of the letter. It's certainly not apologetic, or anything.
All it says is that matters are finalised. No action will be taken against me and the officer has received formal advice. No apology or anything.
I've wasted 4 hours at Goole Police Station.
I've had 3 sleepless nights.
Now, they don't even have the decency to actually say "sorry".
You will have a reference number on there that you could ring up the Professional Standards department on. It is unlikely the officer will appologise directly to you. If he has been given 'formal advice' then he has been dealt with. Honeslty no-one likes getting the formal advice. With regards the delays you suffered. If it was my force that would have been just due to other matters of a more serious nature to deal with (emergency calls, prisoners. scenes etc etc). If you have problems like this in future I would suggest phone and log the comlpant and ask for the call reference number and then go home and write a letter detailing your actions to the Professional Standards Department. It does on the face of it sound like you were poorly dealt with at scene.
sean5302 said:
Well no, actually.
Why was I stopped?
I complained but it has not been registered. Why not, please?
Why is Mr. Plod allowed to call me "Sonny"?
I was respectful to him.
I'm not at all impressed. Would you be?
Why was I stopped?
I complained but it has not been registered. Why not, please?
Why is Mr. Plod allowed to call me "Sonny"?
I was respectful to him.
I'm not at all impressed. Would you be?
No I certainly would not be impressed. In this case if I were you I don't think I would pursue it further, but I share your feelings.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Frankly, I think this is rubbish. If you were in the wrong, would he have dropped the matter so easily ?
No, he was quite happy to condesend to you and fine you and try to restrict your licence. I fail to see why you should show the same consideration to him.
Write back and say that you did not agree to drop the matter and are making a formal complaint.
No, he was quite happy to condesend to you and fine you and try to restrict your licence. I fail to see why you should show the same consideration to him.
Write back and say that you did not agree to drop the matter and are making a formal complaint.
Obviously when the police officer makes a mistake he gets a tut tut and maybe a bit of ribbing down in the pub from his mates but if we make a mistake we get a massive bill and a chunk out of our licence. I think this officer should pay the fine and take the points. He can easily do this by crossing a double line and booking himself.
I feel like a pair of scales at the moment.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
sean5302 said:
I feel like a pair of scales at the moment.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
You could call the station and ask if you can talk to the guy. Actually I'm surprised he hasn't called to see you. It's not like it's a big unfriendly city. It could give you both, as they say, some closure.
sean5302 said:
I feel like a pair of scales at the moment.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
I'm thinking on the one hand, who wants to make enemies in the Police?
This is a small village and there can't be many Officers at Goole Station, where he's based.
He's only about 25, so maybe he isn't very experienced.
On the other hand:
He stopped me in the village. Many neighbours saw this. He had his blue lights on.
He really was patronising.
Why do you think I've stopped you? How long have you been driving? It wasn't what he said, but the tone that upset me.
He couldn't wait to issue the fixed penalty notice. He truly looked gleeful.
I complained, as I wrote.
I've had sleepless nights. Partly with worry, partly with plain annoyance.
He'll probably do exactly the same to somebody else. Not white lines, but another motoring issue.
So, the net result is I wasted 4 hours. I lost some sleep. I lost some respect for the Police.
I think I'll cut my losses. Thanks Guys.
I think I would feel the same. I have been in a similar situation however unfortunately I had to go to court to disprove 3 police officer and prove I was in the right. This took days and days out of my life.
If it were me in that situation I would weigh up the pros and cons, half of me would leave it, the other half would have me writing a strongly worded letter explaining the needless embarrassment you have been caused and that to sort out a problem not of your making you have the option of accepting 3 points on your licence and a £60 fine wrongly administered, or forced to spend 4 hours of your time sorting it out.
I wonder what the penalty would be for wasting 4 hours of police time!? And how the same police officer and police station would want to deal with that!?
If you read my earlier posts the officer has been given formal advice according to the letter received and the punishment cancelled. You will also note that formal advice can impact upon the officers career.
The officer would never be financially punished for this or lose their job. The complaint would have been taken and recorded and for it to have been 4-5 months the officer woud have been issued a notice that they were being investigated. They would possibly have been interviewed under caution about the matter and then a decision would have been reached.
In the mean time the officer even if the complaint was a vexatious one would have been unable to move roles or transfer out of force.
The only thing that should have happened that has not would have been an apology from the force concerned as it appears they were completely in the wrong.
With regards the 4 hour wait. Most stations do not have an Inspector at them. Also most uniform supervisors are out and about dealing with incidents. If you wish to complain attending the police station is pointless it is better to phone and log the complaint. Whoever advised the OP to go the police station was wrong.
Whats more important to you as individuals police attending a incident of a crime etc or speaking to someone about a complaint?. Sorry but thats a low proirity in the short term. Long term its important but few complaints will ever be more important than attending a call. The original OP stated this happened Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon/ evening in most forces is a busy time with many people deciding they have had lunch now they want to have an argument with someone.
The officer would never be financially punished for this or lose their job. The complaint would have been taken and recorded and for it to have been 4-5 months the officer woud have been issued a notice that they were being investigated. They would possibly have been interviewed under caution about the matter and then a decision would have been reached.
In the mean time the officer even if the complaint was a vexatious one would have been unable to move roles or transfer out of force.
The only thing that should have happened that has not would have been an apology from the force concerned as it appears they were completely in the wrong.
With regards the 4 hour wait. Most stations do not have an Inspector at them. Also most uniform supervisors are out and about dealing with incidents. If you wish to complain attending the police station is pointless it is better to phone and log the complaint. Whoever advised the OP to go the police station was wrong.
Whats more important to you as individuals police attending a incident of a crime etc or speaking to someone about a complaint?. Sorry but thats a low proirity in the short term. Long term its important but few complaints will ever be more important than attending a call. The original OP stated this happened Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon/ evening in most forces is a busy time with many people deciding they have had lunch now they want to have an argument with someone.
A genuine question to those police officers on here.Putting aside his condescending attitude, would the officer in question have been given additional training in traffic law & have been unable to issue tickets in the meantime?That would surely seem reasonable in light of his lack of knowledge surrounding this particular offence.
mr_annie_vxr said:
If you read my earlier posts the officer has been given formal advice according to the letter received and the punishment cancelled. You will also note that formal advice can impact upon the officers career.
The officer would never be financially punished for this or lose their job. The complaint would have been taken and recorded and for it to have been 4-5 months the officer woud have been issued a notice that they were being investigated. They would possibly have been interviewed under caution about the matter and then a decision would have been reached.
In the mean time the officer even if the complaint was a vexatious one would have been unable to move roles or transfer out of force.
The only thing that should have happened that has not would have been an apology from the force concerned as it appears they were completely in the wrong.
With regards the 4 hour wait. Most stations do not have an Inspector at them. Also most uniform supervisors are out and about dealing with incidents. If you wish to complain attending the police station is pointless it is better to phone and log the complaint. Whoever advised the OP to go the police station was wrong.
Whats more important to you as individuals police attending a incident of a crime etc or speaking to someone about a complaint?. Sorry but thats a low proirity in the short term. Long term its important but few complaints will ever be more important than attending a call. The original OP stated this happened Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon/ evening in most forces is a busy time with many people deciding they have had lunch now they want to have an argument with someone.
The officer would never be financially punished for this or lose their job. The complaint would have been taken and recorded and for it to have been 4-5 months the officer woud have been issued a notice that they were being investigated. They would possibly have been interviewed under caution about the matter and then a decision would have been reached.
In the mean time the officer even if the complaint was a vexatious one would have been unable to move roles or transfer out of force.
The only thing that should have happened that has not would have been an apology from the force concerned as it appears they were completely in the wrong.
With regards the 4 hour wait. Most stations do not have an Inspector at them. Also most uniform supervisors are out and about dealing with incidents. If you wish to complain attending the police station is pointless it is better to phone and log the complaint. Whoever advised the OP to go the police station was wrong.
Whats more important to you as individuals police attending a incident of a crime etc or speaking to someone about a complaint?. Sorry but thats a low proirity in the short term. Long term its important but few complaints will ever be more important than attending a call. The original OP stated this happened Sunday afternoon. Sunday afternoon/ evening in most forces is a busy time with many people deciding they have had lunch now they want to have an argument with someone.
I dont think the OP or myself were making reference to the fact that the 4 hours should have been shorter, I quite agree, the police have more pressing issues. However what I think the OP and myself are getting at is that he should never have been forced into that situation in the first place.
I dont think anyone would disagree that the best place for any officer is to be 'out there' preventing crime, however in this situation from what I have heard the OP was stopped and the PC involved seems to me used deliberately antogonising words such as 'sonny' to inflate his own position and demote the OP's. Further to this he was pulled over for using the road correctly and the PC obviously did not know the law.
Remember the PC was completely in the position of power, which is of course why he though he was able to use the language he did - all the OP could do was to react the the situations as they faced him. He did nothing to ask to be pulled over, that was the PC's choice. He did nothing to warrant being called 'sonny' - a very passe label at best when a 50 year old officer is talking to a teenage lad, but where it is deliberately misused like this it is obviously being misused for a reason, again this was the PC's choice.
Given the circumstances he could have just accepted it - indeed it may be the case that many others before that date may have from that same PC - but he stood up for himself.
I was left with a similar situation - the three police officers who pulled me over knew that whatever they said or did would very unlikely ever be heard again, and I would *never* go to court to fight it because I could never win as a 'sonny' against three officers. I got my satisfaction in court when the tables were very much turned when the PCs were in the dock and when I cross-examined them they realised in a public way that lying on a statement was not a good idea. I was vindicated and got some closure, and I sympathise very much with the OP about the sleepless nights with regard to not only the anger about it but the anger as a product of the sense of injustice - that as a taxpaying citizen who has never been in trouble with the law in victimised and criminalised just because a PC 'can'.
I just wish that the OP could have the same closure.
I also note from the original post that several vehicles were waiting on the main road and wouldn't overtake the bus. This makes me wonder if several people in the area have already been wrongly prosecuted for this none offence and now think it's "the law".
Edited by herewego on Tuesday 17th October 11:08
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff