ANPR Cameras on Supermarket and other private car parks
Discussion
Just for info and a warning.
Recorded case round our neck of the woods where various people have made two visits, in this case to a DIY store. Unfortunately the no name and shame rule prevents me from indicating which X & Y DIY Whorehouse it was.
Subsequently received penalty notices from the car park enforcers based on their first visit arrival time and second visit departure time.
Complaints to store initially resulted in a "Nothing to do with us chummy" response.
Fortunately the reported ones had two receipts, one from each visit which resulted in tickets being quashed. Presumably if the first visit had been simply part of a price and availability research project hence no actual purchase the defence would have been more tricky.
The store claims that the system was faulty and has now been corrected, I'm not sure how as these things do not have 100% aquisition record.
Afaik this is still a potential scenario.
Recorded case round our neck of the woods where various people have made two visits, in this case to a DIY store. Unfortunately the no name and shame rule prevents me from indicating which X & Y DIY Whorehouse it was.
Subsequently received penalty notices from the car park enforcers based on their first visit arrival time and second visit departure time.
Complaints to store initially resulted in a "Nothing to do with us chummy" response.
Fortunately the reported ones had two receipts, one from each visit which resulted in tickets being quashed. Presumably if the first visit had been simply part of a price and availability research project hence no actual purchase the defence would have been more tricky.
The store claims that the system was faulty and has now been corrected, I'm not sure how as these things do not have 100% aquisition record.
Afaik this is still a potential scenario.
Ive dealt with the company that record the VRM. Im not going to say who they are but its a big business. ANPR style gadget records car in and has a timer set on it. Car does not leave, attendant gets a SMS to his gizmo, you get a ticket.
Nothing to do with the store at all. Its all contracted out. They never drop a case.
Nothing to do with the store at all. Its all contracted out. They never drop a case.
This thread is of interest to me.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
boosted Ls1 said:
This thread is of interest to me.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
My dealing with that ANPR company was around a Besco's in Glasgow.
Its a very strange set up.
You can request a copy of all parts of the camera tapes showing you or your vehicle for a reasonable fee under the data protection act.
So if you go in to price thing and come back later to buy then get issued a ticket on the first arrival time and second departure time you should request a copy of all parts of the tape showing you. If you don't get 2 entrys and 2 exits on video then complain under the data protection act until you do, or demand the whole tape. After all you paid for it. Then you can show you left and came back.
If they don't record video but simply have an APNR system recording entrys and exits then tell them to take you to court. They don;t stand a chance. Ask them what will happen if someone tailgates you into the car park so the camera can't see your plate. While it will be a civil case and they will only have to 'prove' their case on the balance of probabilities the court really shouldn't find against you.
So if you go in to price thing and come back later to buy then get issued a ticket on the first arrival time and second departure time you should request a copy of all parts of the tape showing you. If you don't get 2 entrys and 2 exits on video then complain under the data protection act until you do, or demand the whole tape. After all you paid for it. Then you can show you left and came back.
If they don't record video but simply have an APNR system recording entrys and exits then tell them to take you to court. They don;t stand a chance. Ask them what will happen if someone tailgates you into the car park so the camera can't see your plate. While it will be a civil case and they will only have to 'prove' their case on the balance of probabilities the court really shouldn't find against you.
gently bentley said:
boosted Ls1 said:
This thread is of interest to me.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
My dealing with that ANPR company was around a Besco's in Glasgow.
Its a very strange set up.
GB, do you think they are acting properly? From the other link it seems one of the criteria is that they can only make dvla requests if there aren't any 'less intrusive options available to them'. IMO they could use a guard or a barrier or operate a refundable token scheme.
Boosted.
boosted Ls1 said:
gently bentley said:
boosted Ls1 said:
This thread is of interest to me.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
www.pistonheads.co.uk/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=10&t=318943
bestco's in my town are doing it now and I see no reason why they can't use a security guard logging numbers like bazda stores instead of 'sharing' all the info on the anpr net work.
Boosted.
My dealing with that ANPR company was around a Besco's in Glasgow.
Its a very strange set up.
GB, do you think they are acting properly? From the other link it seems one of the criteria is that they can only make dvla requests if there aren't any 'less intrusive options available to them'. IMO they could use a guard or a barrier or operate a refundable token scheme.
Boosted.
Put it this way. You enter the car park the camera gets your number. You leave after 45mins the camera gets your number. You have done your shopping you have not broken the rules of the car park and the company holds your number on a hard drive until its overwritten by weight of data, circa 30 days. Is that right? Something happens at the store and you get a visit from the bib's who can evidence your car was there for 45 mins almost 1 month ago. You have done nothing wrong but the authorities have now used that system to track your movements. Why? Graet tool for bibs but that does not mean to say its right.
Ive said enough on this matter.
All this is academic. As then tickets private firms hand out are not worth the paper there printed on. Reason being that they can only claim penalty under contract law. The registered keeper is no liable to take to the civil courts they would have to prove who the driver was at the time. The get away with because most people pay up.
All you have to to is write to them saying as i was not driving at the time can you please sent proof of who and consented to the contract.
All you have to to is write to them saying as i was not driving at the time can you please sent proof of who and consented to the contract.
Edited by roadbandit on Sunday 22 October 00:45
My (former) local tescos was given planning permission to expand on the basis it gave over some of its parking spaces to the adjacent station, which badly needed them. It then didn't, and probably had no intention of doing so in the first place, so as far as I'm concerned it's perfectly moral (under the well known two wrongs making a right rule) for me to use their car park when I use the station. The tesco car park is never anywhere near full anyway, the station one is impossible to get spaces at between 8 and 6.
Pies said:
gently bentley said:
Nothing to do with the store at all. Its all contracted out. They never drop a case.
That's rubbish,the store own the car park,they decide how its operated and by who
The point is to try and assist fellow PH;s
Today if you have the time go and park at one of these places for longer than allowed. when the tickets comes in argue the case with the store and let me know how you get on.
I already know the answer to this by the way.
You are right the store do own the car park and they do decide who operates it NOT how. They wash their hands of it and leave it to the other company. It might not be right but they do it.
boosted Ls1 said:
GB, it sounds like the store has 'sold on' the parking contract or done something like that? If I'm correct do you happen to know who would issue the penalty ticket or receive the payments?
Boosted.
Boosted.
Yes I do. Previous posts explain this. I am however not going to name the company as that would cause me a world of pain.
gently bentley said:
You are right the store do own the car park and they do decide who operates it NOT how. They wash their hands of it and leave it to the other company. It might not be right but they do it.
Yep. So write to the manager of that particular store and advise him you won't shop there again until the private clampers are removed.
Flat in Fifth said:
gently bentley said:
Nothing to do with the store at all.
I'd argue that point. The displayed signs from the enforcement company include the very clear statement "On behalf of X" where X is the name of the retail store.
...
My local DIY store of the same name records car numbers manually (by means of a man with a clip-board walking around). I can see how this could easily lead to a number being recorded at widely spaced times of the same day and an assumption being made that the vehicle had not moved in the interim. A properly set up computerised CCTV-based system should take account of multiple entries (and/or exits) and not be confused, unless the number-plate were obscured on one occasion.
Of course, unscrupulous drivers might make a small purchase at the start and end of each day that totalled less than the cost of parking in a nearby fee-paying car park with the intent of showing that they were using the car park as a customer. I'm not suggesting this was the case, BTW!
Streaky
Edited by streaky on Sunday 22 October 12:08
gently bentley said:
You are right the store do own the car park and they do decide who operates it NOT how. They wash their hands of it and leave it to the other company. It might not be right but they do it.
Assuming that I have the identity of Bestco correct.
I note that on our local Bestco car park there is absolutely no mention of any other company. The only phone number is the "Bestco Parking helpline" Not to mention "All profits goes to the Bestco Charity of the month"
Also in the case of the other outfit there have definitely been cases where both parties wash their hands of it which leaves the keeper in a bit of a pickle.
It seems as though the system GB talks about ie SMS to attendant who places ticket on car is different as at least one the schemes I'm talking about definitely drop a Penalty notice through the post later.
Pies said:
gently bentley said:
Nothing to do with the store at all. Its all contracted out. They never drop a case.
That's rubbish,the store own the car park,they decide how its operated and by who
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