Camera vans - is it too late when you see them?
Discussion
I've always done well spotting fixed cameras, police cars etc but have found recently (twice) at slowing on seeing a camera van ( a long way away I thought) was not enough. So some questions:
-how far can camera vans see you and can they do both lanes of a dual carriageway at once?
-in a 70mph limit what is the lowest speed they would 'do you' at?
-which speed detectors would detect a camera van in time to slow down?
Cheers guys
-how far can camera vans see you and can they do both lanes of a dual carriageway at once?
-in a 70mph limit what is the lowest speed they would 'do you' at?
-which speed detectors would detect a camera van in time to slow down?
Cheers guys
Not necessarily. Always slow down ASAP though. As one operator explained to me. If the limit is 60, they are probably looking for those doing at least 75+. So they see the fast car, but may not pull the trigger until it is in range and they have better photographic evidence. Hence the driver may be done for 69/70 as they are caught slowing down.
The bloke I spoke to was an officer mind and I believed him when he said he wasn't interested in those doing 70. Some other operators may not be so "reasonable."
The bloke I spoke to was an officer mind and I believed him when he said he wasn't interested in those doing 70. Some other operators may not be so "reasonable."
madbadger said:
Range is supposed to be about 1km. They won't always get you from there though. Best detector is your eyes. As soon as you see any vans at all slam the brakes on as hard as possible. Just in case they havn't got you yet.
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
vonhosen said:
madbadger said:
Range is supposed to be about 1km. They won't always get you from there though. Best detector is your eyes. As soon as you see any vans at all slam the brakes on as hard as possible. Just in case they havn't got you yet.
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
It must be hard being perfect.
r5gttgaz said:
vonhosen said:
madbadger said:
Range is supposed to be about 1km. They won't always get you from there though. Best detector is your eyes. As soon as you see any vans at all slam the brakes on as hard as possible. Just in case they havn't got you yet.
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
It must be hard being perfect.
Nobody is & you don't have to be to avoid prosecutions. They don't prosecute for 71 in 70 after all.
r5gttgaz said:
vonhosen said:
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
It must be hard being perfect.
Tell that to Brunstrom/Ladyman.......
- Some of the camera van equipment (lidar gun) can get you from 1km away, but ACPO CoP supposedly limits operation to 2000ft.
- One lidar gun can be used to enforce both carriages of a dual carriageway at once, so long as the view isn’t blocked by other traffic.
- The lidar gun can also measure receding traffic (“traffic going away from them” )
- SCP operators usually have their trip threshold set at 10%+2mph, so you would be in dangerous territory at 77mph in a 70 limit. Real police can get you at any speed over the limit, but this would depend on circumstance.
- The only detector which can detect mobile lidar setups are laser detectors. However, this will only tell you if you have been pinged simply because you won’t be able to react and scrub off your excess speed before the measurement is finished.
You might get lucky at long distances: the operator is likely to get (detected) slip errors; however, he can keep trying over and over again in quick succession so chances are he’ll still get you before you‘ve scrubbed off any decent speed.
At close range, the beam cone (its not really a cone) width will be small, so if the operator aims it at your plate, your windscreen mounted detector won’t get hit by it, hence there’s a good chance it won’t alert you anyway.
- To answer the subject title, if you can see them and you’re within 1km (!) of them, they will already have seen you, formed opinion* and pressed the trigger.
(*that they should target you)
vonhosen said:
madbadger said:
Range is supposed to be about 1km. They won't always get you from there though. Best detector is your eyes. As soon as you see any vans at all slam the brakes on as hard as possible. Just in case they havn't got you yet.
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
Sorry Von. Missed off the tongue in cheek smilie.
I agree with you that you should not silly brake for either scam vans, yellow estate agent signs or, as I implied, random vans. I don't do it, however I have observed it happening on the roads. I imagine from one of the majority of "A car is for getting from A to B" motorists rather than a tuned in, observant PHead.
smeggy said:
vonhosen said:
Nobody is & you don't have to be to avoid prosecutions. They don't prosecute for 71 in 70 after all.
But they will prosecute you for doing 71 in what really should be a 70 (M275 - was 70 now 50...why?)
Because it's a 50 & you aren't attempting to stick within the peformance parameters set perhaps ?
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 4th November 13:43
vonhosen said:
Because it's a 50 & you aren't attempting to stick within the peformance parameters set perhaps ?
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 4th November 13:43
For over 20 years we have been doing 70 on that road, now all of a sudden it's dangerous? nothing has changed!
I even contacted my MP about it - his response is now clearly proven to be BS
And guess what: for the first time ever I have recently seen, with my own eyes, mobile SCPs enforcing that stretch of road.....(yes, after the speed camera)
ah - the reason becomes clear and obviou$ £or everyone
vonhosen said:
madbadger said:
Range is supposed to be about 1km. They won't always get you from there though. Best detector is your eyes. As soon as you see any vans at all slam the brakes on as hard as possible. Just in case they haven't got you yet.
How about stick to the speed limit & then they aren't a problem rather than silly braking activities ?
There's a comment that could be regarded by many as baiting, (despite it being technically correct).
vonhosen said:
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Thats the issue with cameras though. Say one day you drive on NSL DC doing 70. No problem, you're not speeding and the conditions are suitable for the speed. Next day terrible visibilty, rain, cold, locusts, etc, and the max safe speed is more like 40. Drive along now at 70 and a camera will accpet that you are "safe" when clearly you are not.
xanderjones said:
vonhosen said:
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Thats the issue with cameras though. Say one day you drive on NSL DC doing 70. No problem, you're not speeding and the conditions are suitable for the speed. Next day terrible visibilty, rain, cold, locusts, etc, and the max safe speed is more like 40. Drive along now at 70 and a camera will accpet that you are "safe" when clearly you are not.
No.
The camera doesn't ever determine whether your speed is safe, that's not it's job.
It's job is to determine whether you are operating within a set of clearly defined parameters.
The offence of excess speed requires no proof of danger caused.
If you are going to be prosecuted for dangerous driving then it will be by a human being & that can happen at speeds above or below the limit.
All speed limits do is provide a set of parameters for us all to operate within, so that we can have a degree of control over maximum differentials that can be legally achieved & have set reasonable expectations on the speed others will be using in areas where we travel together. That is in the interests of safety.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 4th November 14:36
vonhosen said:
xanderjones said:
vonhosen said:
Some days I can do one speed down a road & another not.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Why ?
Because things change & at times for reasons that may not be immeadiately obvious to us.
Thats the issue with cameras though. Say one day you drive on NSL DC doing 70. No problem, you're not speeding and the conditions are suitable for the speed. Next day terrible visibilty, rain, cold, locusts, etc, and the max safe speed is more like 40. Drive along now at 70 and a camera will accpet that you are "safe" when clearly you are not.
No.
The camera doesn't ever determine whether your speed is safe, that's not it's job.
Hurray!
I'm now off to the makers of my sat nav to demand a patch to stop it calling them "safety cameras"! 
vonhosen said:
The offence of excess speed requires no proof of danger caused.
So can the ‘safety’ be dropped from the safety camera partnerships title?
vonhosen said:
All speed limits do is provide a set of parameters for us all to operate within, so that we can have a degree of control over maximum differentials that can be legally achieved & have set reasonable expectations on the speed others will be using in areas where we travel together. That is in the interests of safety.
This is a nested argument – ‘speed limits must be enforced because we expect drivers to comply with the speed limit’.
However, I will agree that pedestrians and such need to be given the chance to correctly judge a drivers actions, hence people generally agree that speeding in vulnerable areas is a no-no; but this simply does not apply to motorways (and many DCs).
smeggy said:
However, I will agree that pedestrians and such need to be given the chance to correctly judge a drivers actions, hence people generally agree that speeding in vulnerable areas is a no-no; but this simply does not apply to motorways (and many DCs).
I disagree.
Look at lane discipline & the lack of mirror work by your average driver out there.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=323320&f=23&h=0
I think our speed limits are a fair reflection of the skill levels out there.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 4th November 15:26
vonhosen said:
I disagree.
Look at lane discipline & the lack of mirror work by your average driver out there.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=323320&f=23&h=0
I think our speed limits are a fair reflection of the skill levels out there.
Look at lane discipline & the lack of mirror work by your average driver out there.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=323320&f=23&h=0
I think our speed limits are a fair reflection of the skill levels out there.
But is the dumbing down of our driving culture the cause? Having had the pleasure of driving in Germany, I can tell you they have no such problems over there. Will our reliance on speed lowering and enforcement make the skill set of our culture better or worse?
vonhosen said:
I disagree.
Look at lane discipline & the lack of mirror work by your average driver out there.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=323320&f=23&h=0
I think our speed limits are a fair reflection of the skill levels out there.
Look at lane discipline & the lack of mirror work by your average driver out there.
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=323320&f=23&h=0
I think our speed limits are a fair reflection of the skill levels out there.
So why not deploy resources into stopping and educating these brain-dead muppets instead of throwing ever-increasing numbers of scameras out there?
Wouldn't be anything to do with the ecomomics would it?
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