Discussion
Can someone please explain to me, once and for-all, the legalities of an 'undertake' manoeuvre?
For example:
Motorway traffic. Car A is travelling in the middle lane. Car B overtakes Car A by using the left-hand lane (the slow lane), hence completing an 'undertake' manoeuvre. Has Car B broken any laws? The Highway Code says this manoeuvre should not take place, but is this backed up by a law? Could a driver executing such a manoeuvre be charged with either 'Driving Without Due Care and Attention' or even 'Dangerous Driving'?
Is the situation any different on a dual carriageway?
I keep having arguments with a BiB friend of mine who insists that she could successfully 'do' someone an undertaking manoeuvre. I myself am not so sure that she could.
Settle our argument for good, please! I'd rather be wrong and just shut up than keeping arguing the toss ad infinitum.
For example:
Motorway traffic. Car A is travelling in the middle lane. Car B overtakes Car A by using the left-hand lane (the slow lane), hence completing an 'undertake' manoeuvre. Has Car B broken any laws? The Highway Code says this manoeuvre should not take place, but is this backed up by a law? Could a driver executing such a manoeuvre be charged with either 'Driving Without Due Care and Attention' or even 'Dangerous Driving'?
Is the situation any different on a dual carriageway?
I keep having arguments with a BiB friend of mine who insists that she could successfully 'do' someone an undertaking manoeuvre. I myself am not so sure that she could.
Settle our argument for good, please! I'd rather be wrong and just shut up than keeping arguing the toss ad infinitum.
I do the same as you describe almost every morning on my way to work.
I have to join the A1M for 1 mile and the inside lane is usually empty, whilst cars are bunched in the outer two lanes.
I join in the inside lane and just continue on it until my exit. Rather than undertaking I would classify it as lanes moving at different rates to each other.
If I was to dive into the inside lane and then back out into the outside lane to get around a vehicle in my path then yes, that would be under taking.
I have to join the A1M for 1 mile and the inside lane is usually empty, whilst cars are bunched in the outer two lanes.
I join in the inside lane and just continue on it until my exit. Rather than undertaking I would classify it as lanes moving at different rates to each other.
If I was to dive into the inside lane and then back out into the outside lane to get around a vehicle in my path then yes, that would be under taking.
242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
From the highway code
i.e don't jink left floor it then pull back in
there are no offence codes listed but i suppose you get done due care or inconsiderate driving if it applies now or in the not too distan
From the highway code
i.e don't jink left floor it then pull back in
there are no offence codes listed but i suppose you get done due care or inconsiderate driving if it applies now or in the not too distan
Edited by vim fuego on Tuesday 7th November 16:16
There is no specific offence of 'undertaking'. Depending on how badly it is performed would attract at least an intervention to explain why it was not a good move or possibly attract a summons for driving without due care/reasonable consideration (Section 3 RTA 1988). In the worst situations it could be Section 2 RTA 1988 Dangerous Driving.
Slow moving and heavy traffic situations are often the places where passing on the nearside is acceptable. IF DONE CAREFULLY.
Blasting past on the nearside on carriageways with free flowing fast moving traffic would not be considered a sensible manouevre to conduct if it was witnessed by Roads Policing or indeed any officer that happened to be in the vicinity.
If the inconsiderate lane 2 or lane 3 driver will not move to allow passing on the offside, a warning such a headlamp flash behind them to remind them you are there should be affected, if there is no response from the obstructive driver, a gentle move into the nearside lane behind them without decreasing the distance between the two vehicles, then another headlamp flash warning before careful progress up the nearside. If there is the possibility of getting a lane between the two vehicles so providing a safety margin, even better. Always do it gently and not a a vast differential to the speed of the vehicle causing the obstruction.
Anyone passing on the nearside at an exit slip at a moderate to fast speed is asking for trouble, not least from the point of view of being seen as bad driving by police officers. UNLESS there is a lanes width between the two vehicles, i.e. Car A is in lane 1 of the main carriageway and car B takes lane 1 of a two laned slip road. or similar scenarios as long as there is a safety margin of a lane between the two vehicles.
Slow moving and heavy traffic situations are often the places where passing on the nearside is acceptable. IF DONE CAREFULLY.
Blasting past on the nearside on carriageways with free flowing fast moving traffic would not be considered a sensible manouevre to conduct if it was witnessed by Roads Policing or indeed any officer that happened to be in the vicinity.
If the inconsiderate lane 2 or lane 3 driver will not move to allow passing on the offside, a warning such a headlamp flash behind them to remind them you are there should be affected, if there is no response from the obstructive driver, a gentle move into the nearside lane behind them without decreasing the distance between the two vehicles, then another headlamp flash warning before careful progress up the nearside. If there is the possibility of getting a lane between the two vehicles so providing a safety margin, even better. Always do it gently and not a a vast differential to the speed of the vehicle causing the obstruction.
Anyone passing on the nearside at an exit slip at a moderate to fast speed is asking for trouble, not least from the point of view of being seen as bad driving by police officers. UNLESS there is a lanes width between the two vehicles, i.e. Car A is in lane 1 of the main carriageway and car B takes lane 1 of a two laned slip road. or similar scenarios as long as there is a safety margin of a lane between the two vehicles.
Edited by mg6b on Tuesday 7th November 16:17
I think in this case it is hard to define, it comes down to common sense.
Like you say if a deliberate move is pulled to get around a car in front, then its undertaking, but I like to think I can carry on going at the speed I am without worrying the outer lanes have slowed (obviously taking extra care).
On my way home I exit a 3 lane A road where it splits down to 2 lanes - and the traffic usually builds up - so I undertake lots of cars to carry on to my exit.
Like you say if a deliberate move is pulled to get around a car in front, then its undertaking, but I like to think I can carry on going at the speed I am without worrying the outer lanes have slowed (obviously taking extra care).
On my way home I exit a 3 lane A road where it splits down to 2 lanes - and the traffic usually builds up - so I undertake lots of cars to carry on to my exit.
Basically what Mg6b said.
The ones that get my goat, as someone else commented, are the pull hard left, boot it hard up the inside, and then force their way out into a space that isn't there in the lane to right.
These people deserve a tug.
Overtaking / undertaking queuing traffic is always risky.
Very few people I see take any degree of care when in the vicinity of slower moving / stationary traffic on the approach to pedestrian crossings, despite that an overtake in such a situation could lead to a licence losing experience, never mind the actual risks involved.
The ones that get my goat, as someone else commented, are the pull hard left, boot it hard up the inside, and then force their way out into a space that isn't there in the lane to right.
These people deserve a tug.
Overtaking / undertaking queuing traffic is always risky.
Very few people I see take any degree of care when in the vicinity of slower moving / stationary traffic on the approach to pedestrian crossings, despite that an overtake in such a situation could lead to a licence losing experience, never mind the actual risks involved.
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Tuesday 7th November 16:23
ehyouwhat said:
The Highway Code says this manoeuvre should not take place, but is this backed up by a law? Could a driver executing such a manoeuvre be charged with either 'Driving Without Due Care and Attention' or even 'Dangerous Driving'?
I thought that if it was in the code it is "law", anything not specifically called out by a regulation comes under driving without due care etc. Is that right?
Not answering the original question but it's incredibly frustrating to have the outer 2 lanes of a motorway clogged up with 60 MPH drivers whilst the left hand lane is empty for as far as the eye can see.
It is the drivers who refuse to move over to the left who should get tugged in my opinion. I would be interested in the opinion of the OP's BiB friend about these drivers.
It is the drivers who refuse to move over to the left who should get tugged in my opinion. I would be interested in the opinion of the OP's BiB friend about these drivers.
mouseymousey said:
Not answering the original question but it's incredibly frustrating to have the outer 2 lanes of a motorway clogged up with 60 MPH drivers whilst the left hand lane is empty for as far as the eye can see.
It is the drivers who refuse to move over to the left who should get tugged in my opinion. I would be interested in the opinion of the OP's BiB friend about these drivers.
It is the drivers who refuse to move over to the left who should get tugged in my opinion. I would be interested in the opinion of the OP's BiB friend about these drivers.
Well, as they aint speeding, they're perfectly safe and smuggly quite happy to block the road.
Tossers
oogieboogie said:
ehyouwhat said:
The Highway Code says this manoeuvre should not take place, but is this backed up by a law? Could a driver executing such a manoeuvre be charged with either 'Driving Without Due Care and Attention' or even 'Dangerous Driving'?
I thought that if it was in the code it is "law", anything not specifically called out by a regulation comes under driving without due care etc. Is that right?
Things forbidden in law have MUST NOT within the highway code rule & a link guide to the law in question at the bottom.
All the rules within the highway code (including those that aren't defined as laws themselves) form the basis of acceptable behaviour on our roads. Where you go oustide that behaviour, then the highway code could be used in part as evidence to support a charge of inconsiderate driving or without due care against you.
Edited by vonhosen on Tuesday 7th November 18:10
some thoughts in regard to the procedure that mg6b outlined:
the moving out, flashing, moving back in flashing could easily be (wrongly) construed to be an act of agression. Not something I would like to be doing. I think it would very easily make the L2 car try to cut in when you had moved back in and had decided to go by.
surely if it is wrong and potentially dangerous to go by on the inside in the circs described, then no amount of flashing can make it safe or right.
if you do go by on the inside, then would it be better to minimise the time alongside and certainly the time in the nearside blindspot?
When in the circs (very common on the M25 A3 to M4 and back) I tend to stay in l1 and when coming to a slower car in L2 I hang back, make sure I have an escape route to the left on the hard shoulder and if the car shows no sign of moving in, I will make a positive move past (not a zip, but not a slow incremental move either). Looks like I should adjust my procedure.
Graham
the moving out, flashing, moving back in flashing could easily be (wrongly) construed to be an act of agression. Not something I would like to be doing. I think it would very easily make the L2 car try to cut in when you had moved back in and had decided to go by.
surely if it is wrong and potentially dangerous to go by on the inside in the circs described, then no amount of flashing can make it safe or right.
if you do go by on the inside, then would it be better to minimise the time alongside and certainly the time in the nearside blindspot?
When in the circs (very common on the M25 A3 to M4 and back) I tend to stay in l1 and when coming to a slower car in L2 I hang back, make sure I have an escape route to the left on the hard shoulder and if the car shows no sign of moving in, I will make a positive move past (not a zip, but not a slow incremental move either). Looks like I should adjust my procedure.
Graham
shuvitupya said:
ehyouwhat said:
So TBH I'm still unsure as to the whole legallity issue.
It's not illegal.
But if you are caught by BiB doing high speed undertake then you could well be in trouble.
Yes, but it is very difficult to understand (if not to imagine) how a trafpol who was observing the scene would ignore a comatose numbnuts sitting in the 3rd lane but pull an alert driver who did an overtake in the 1st lane on the basis that the overtaker was "Driving without Due Care and Attention."
What exactly was the overtakee doing?
vim fuego said:
242: Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
From the highway code
i.e don't jink left floor it then pull back in
there are no offence codes listed but i suppose you get done due care or inconsiderate driving if it applies now or in the not too distan
From the highway code
i.e don't jink left floor it then pull back in
there are no offence codes listed but i suppose you get done due care or inconsiderate driving if it applies now or in the not too distan
Lane 1 is usually the last one to stop when the M1 is congested during my usual morning commute. I generally use lanes 1 and 2 more as lane 3 is normally full up with nose-to-tail cars (mainly repmobile BMW's and Vectras
), all driving far too close. The bulk of the accidents seems to happen in this lane. It's not a case of undertaking - more a case of being able to maintain more space between me and tbe other traffic, and maintaining the pace of the lane I'm travelling in. Does make me titter when I see people join the motorway and make a mad dash for the outside lane only for the traffic to stop and the rest of us sail by effortlessly in lanes 1 and 2!
8Pack said:
Anyone here not in the habit of "towing" should try a trip down the motorway with a trailer to see just how inconsiderate your fellow motorist can be....
Ah yes, oh joy, stuck with some moron in L2! Horrible to go by on the inside taking two car lengths to get by and not allowed in L3. Mind you, I have witnessed the car and trailer go out into L3 and risking the 3 points to get by.
Graham
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