Tuesday 14th November 2006

Speed camera test kills motorist

Police tested new device on minor road

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Vascar

A man died and his wife was seriously injured following a head-on collision with a police car whose driver was testing a speed measuring device.

The two Lancashire police cars, one tailing the other, were testing a Vascar device, which measures the speed of a moving car. The force hadn't used the device before and was evaluating it.

The couple, Peter and Jean Williams, both retired, were driving their VW Touran on their way to a break in the Yorkshire Dales. When the police cars rounded a bend in broad daylight, the lead car hit the Williams' vehicle.

Peter Williams suffered chest and leg injuries, and died the next day. Jean Williams is alive with multiple fractures and is in hospital.

The horrendous accident happened on the B6254 between Arkholme and Over Kellet, near Lancaster on Thursday 2 November. Locals say that it's a rural road with sudden dips that obscure the view ahead, and on which there have been a number of accidents.

Both the police drivers had completed advanced driving course, although Lancs Police refused to say why such testing wasn't being undertaken on a much safer motorway rather than an accident-prone, narrow rural road.

• Driver killed in head-on crash as two police cars test new speed camera

[Don]

Tragedy for everyone concerned.

[jonjay]

I think this is disgusting to be honest! The worst thing is nothing will be done about it and cameras will continue to be increased across britain, more accidents will happen because people will be constantly worrying about being flashed, more fines will come through our letter boxes and the only people who will benifit is the goverment from this stealth tax.

[AndyB_WRX]

I wonder what the evaluation will say

[anniesdad]

My sincerest condolences to all concerned.

[fidgits]

thats awful...

you have to feel for the families.

[planetdave]

Conjecture on my part - but sounds like under familiarity with the device meaning that the drivers attention was focused on the device rather than the road. If the photo is accurate that's the equivalent of changing the radio station on a 'B' road ie pick your time carefully. Not really a scenario to generate an accurate speed reading either.

[apache]

COndolences to the families concerned, but it's inappropriate to speculate how this happened with the limited info available IMO

[MilnerR]

Dreadful for all concerned, my condolences. There but for the grace of God go a lot of us.

Will this incident be included in the stats used to back up harsher speed enforcement? Of course it will! Like the M4 scameras that appeared after X number of deaths, at least one of which was a suicide off a bridge!

[havoc]

planetdave said:

Conjecture on my part - but sounds like under familiarity with the device meaning that the drivers attention was focused on the device rather than the road. If the photo is accurate that's the equivalent of changing the radio station on a 'B' road ie pick your time carefully. Not really a scenario to generate an accurate speed reading either.

Not so sure - it was the lead car, who would IMHO have been the 'target', with the device in the following car.

Nonetheless, as Apache says, bit inappropriate at the moment. The pointlessness of it is the saddest thing. Can't imagine how she'll be feeling right now...

[Shadytree]

Shocking and extremely disturbing. Condolences to the family

It's stories like this that make my blood boil.

Edited by Shadytree on Tuesday 14th November 11:15

[notoriousmagik]

A terrible tradgedy, but with the police driver having passed an advanced driving test he/she should have been aware of the risks, especially if they were local. Maybe it was a false confidence in the police driver

[planetdave]

apache said:

COndolences to the families concerned, but it's inappropriate to speculate how this happened with the limited info available IMO

Pray tell why it is inappropriate to speculate?

What level of evidence would you like before presenting an opinion? I'm not naming names or stating anything controversial that is going to hurt anybody.

As you might point out the only incontrovertible feature is that an innocent party has died and another hospitalised.

What is this forum/thread for? Lining up in numerical order to post 'condolences to the family'?

The state of play at the moment is that the link says the device was in the following vehicle.

Which makes it much worse.

On the other hand all the information given might be duff.

Shall I go back to bed now and ignore the world completely?

[apache]

Inappropriate because blame will, naturally, be levelled at someone. Remember the Naseem thread? It's the nature of PH to begin to polarise a view and it pretty soon escalates into something unpleasant. Not good when there's a death involved and PH is such a public place, much better to acknowledge respect and wait for more info IMO.

This is, as I said in my opinion, not aimed at you PD. I respect your posts and have no reason to think this thread will be any different.

[john57]

apache said:

COndolences to the families concerned, but it's inappropriate to speculate how this happened with the limited info available IMO

I agree - but it continues to amaze me how people on this site who don't know the facts, or anything about Vascar or Police training make sweeping comments .... as has been said, you don't really know anything, only what has been reported - and of course thats always accurate isn't it

The only thing we know is that there has been a terrible tragedy.

[petea]

can you imagine the police's actions if this had been caused by a member of the public?

Thoughts go out to those have lost loved ones

[john57]

petea said:

can you imagine the police's actions if this had been caused by a member of the public?

And what difference exactly would that make ?

[turbobungle]

john57 said:

apache said:

COndolences to the families concerned, but it's inappropriate to speculate how this happened with the limited info available IMO

I agree - but it continues to amaze me how people on this site who don't know the facts, or anything about Vascar or Police training make sweeping comments .... as has been said, you don't really know anything, only what has been reported - and of course thats always accurate isn't it

The only thing we know is that there has been a terrible tragedy.

In fairness, all we ever know is what is reported. Normally what is reported goes to justify more scameras and other stupid road 'safety' measures whether it is correct or not! We all know full well that no matter how many accidents are caused by these safety measures (not saying it actually did in this case though) the government won't back down these inaffective (but money making) ideas!

Condolences to all concerned.

www.turbobungle.com

[dern]

Doesn't say who was on the wrong side of the road and why they were there although I'm sure that won't stop people jumping to conclusions.

[mechsympathy]

dern said:

Doesn't say who was on the wrong side of the road and why they were there although I'm sure that won't stop people jumping to conclusions.

And Vascar isn't a camera.

[Hollywood Wheels]

None of us know what happened, so please put the knives away. As usual, the anti-BiB brigade here are spewing their usual nonsense. If a member of the public had hit the couple you very same people would be jumping to his defence. WE DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED YET.

There will be an investigation, then we can argue the toss all we like. Have any of you 'outraged' members actually read the articles on this? The family of the deceased are saying that they completely understand how terrible accidents happen, and are not blaming the Police. I'm stunned by their reaction, how humble, there are still really good people on this earth and that family give me frash hope in the human race. A terrible tragedy, my thoughts are with all concerned....