Discussion
After some advice for my brother. Two nights ago he's driving down an A road, signals to turn right. Car coming the opposite way, signals to turn left, into the same side road, very courteously flashes headlights to allow my brother to turn first (bear in mind this second car is signalling left). My brother turns in, but a moped rider undertakes the second car, rides straight into my brothers week old fabia vrs. Luckily no-one hurt, police were a few cars back and stopped to take statements etc. Who is at fault here for the sake of insurance??
Shouldnt of.
You other car shouldnt of given up his right of way and should have been aware of a bike coming up his inside, or at least following closely on his inside.
Your brother shouldnt of taken the given up right of way, and should also have seen the biker too. Thats the problem with acting on a 'flash', you feel obliged to act quickly and on trust, and can miss things like bikers.
The biker shouldnt of undertaken, it is debatable whether the biker would have undertaken had the car turned left correctly when it had priority.
My opinion would be, fault in order of fault...
1. Flasher, for creating the situation.
2. Biker, for not reading situation.
3. Your Bro', for not looking properly when given an opportunity.
However, it may well get looked at like this...
1. Your Bro', for turning into the path of two vehicles that had priority.
2. Biker for undertaking.
3. Flasher, exonerated of all blame.
This whole flash of the lights, you 1st, no, you 1st, I insist, business can be very dodgy.
Sorry to hear the Furby has took a thump.
You other car shouldnt of given up his right of way and should have been aware of a bike coming up his inside, or at least following closely on his inside.
Your brother shouldnt of taken the given up right of way, and should also have seen the biker too. Thats the problem with acting on a 'flash', you feel obliged to act quickly and on trust, and can miss things like bikers.
The biker shouldnt of undertaken, it is debatable whether the biker would have undertaken had the car turned left correctly when it had priority.
My opinion would be, fault in order of fault...
1. Flasher, for creating the situation.
2. Biker, for not reading situation.
3. Your Bro', for not looking properly when given an opportunity.
However, it may well get looked at like this...
1. Your Bro', for turning into the path of two vehicles that had priority.
2. Biker for undertaking.
3. Flasher, exonerated of all blame.
This whole flash of the lights, you 1st, no, you 1st, I insist, business can be very dodgy.
Sorry to hear the Furby has took a thump.
i find this all very odd..... so i'm driving along, car in front starts slowing and indicating right and moves to the white line in the centre of the road, i carry on passed him as the road is plenty wide enough, but if someone else from the other side of the road turns into my path, its my fault?
obviously it would be more cut and dried if there was a right hand turn lane, but i find it very odd that people are suggesting sitting behind an indicating car,even if there's plenty of room to get passed, just in case someone turns into my my path.
i'd have thought it was the responsibility of the driver turning accross the traffic to see if its clear. imagine if it had been an artic flashing him accross, but the road was wide enough for another artic to pass the turning one.... be a bit of a different outcome to being hit by a moped!
eccles said:
i find this all very odd..... so i'm driving along, car in front starts slowing and indicating right and moves to the white line in the centre of the road, i carry on passed him as the road is plenty wide enough, but if someone else from the other side of the road turns into my path, its my fault?
eccles said:
i find this all very odd..... so i'm driving along, car in front starts slowing and indicating right and moves to the white line in the centre of the road, i carry on passed him as the road is plenty wide enough, but if someone else from the other side of the road turns into my path, its my fault?
obviously it would be more cut and dried if there was a right hand turn lane, but i find it very odd that people are suggesting sitting behind an indicating car,even if there's plenty of room to get passed, just in case someone turns into my my path.
i'd have thought it was the responsibility of the driver turning accross the traffic to see if its clear. imagine if it had been an artic flashing him accross, but the road was wide enough for another artic to pass the turning one.... be a bit of a different outcome to being hit by a moped!
I think you have that the wrong way round - in the OP your artic would be sgnalling LEFT, not right, and you would be undertaking it.
Moped rider didn't see the indicators and from that point on was going to be collected by one car or the other, I'd say.
Surely you are never meant to undertake? So if this second car has stopped or slowed to make a turn/let the brothers vehicle turn in, then this mopeder/biker was bloody asking to get hit, as both the vehicles were going to be turning into the side road and cross his path. Or more correctly, he was going to cross their path.
From what I understand of the accident, I fail to see how the blame can be put on anyone other than the moped rider.
From what I understand of the accident, I fail to see how the blame can be put on anyone other than the moped rider.
warren182 said:
Had a chat with my uncle, traffic cop, he puts the blame on the moped rider, as did the officer at the scene. Obviously insurance may see things differently.
I reckon so too. Problem is, if the biker basically says he won't accept responsibility it'll all get split down the middle. Crazy I know....
Probably a bit of fault all round on this one but balance of the blame I guess rests with the moped. However the driver letting your brother through should not have done so and your brother should not have taken it really (although I appreciate that I might have done the same given the situation).
I have a crossroads near me where I go straight across (crossing the A4), drivers turning right off this road and onto my road often sit back and signal me out across the front of them, however they fail to realise that cars and more dangerously bikes are still passing them on their left hand side as they have moved to the centre of the road. They often get huffety when I refuse to move but they have not realised the danger and blind spot they are creating should I pull out across the front of them.
I have a crossroads near me where I go straight across (crossing the A4), drivers turning right off this road and onto my road often sit back and signal me out across the front of them, however they fail to realise that cars and more dangerously bikes are still passing them on their left hand side as they have moved to the centre of the road. They often get huffety when I refuse to move but they have not realised the danger and blind spot they are creating should I pull out across the front of them.
warren182 said:
Not sure if it helps, but there are witnesses to the biker being extremely apologetic? He was v. lucky, no helmet, ended up sprawled over the bonnet.
If there are witnesses to the moped rider saying sorry, then make sure your insurance company knows it. Insurance companies tend to take the word sorry as an admission of guilt, (at least they have in my past experience).
I'm wondering if the flasher was overtaking the moped. This would explain why he was far enough out from the pavement for the moped to drive through. It's not unusual for cars to overtake two wheelers just before turning left. I believe we are also responsible(and I mean legally) for signals that we give to other road users. In that case the flasher was responsible for a dangerous overtaking manoeuvre and false signal.
Edited by herewego on Friday 17th November 11:42
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