Times - "Slow down signs work better than cameras
Discussion
In the Times this morning...www.timesonline.co.uk/motoring
A study by the TRL is reported as showing that vehicle-activated "slow down" signs are more effective than speed cameras at slowing drivers down. Interestingly, the sign used in the picture accompanying the article gives not only the "Slow down" warning but also a "crossroads" sign, thus showing the reason for the need for the slower speed.
Some commentary was made by the Safety Camera Partnerships to the effect that "the effect will wear off when people realise that they won't be fined". This was refuted by the author of the report however.
So, if the report is correct, can we expect to see no further cameras being installed, and a raft of vehicle-operated warning signs out there?
The result may be telling in terms of what HMG really care about...
A study by the TRL is reported as showing that vehicle-activated "slow down" signs are more effective than speed cameras at slowing drivers down. Interestingly, the sign used in the picture accompanying the article gives not only the "Slow down" warning but also a "crossroads" sign, thus showing the reason for the need for the slower speed.
Some commentary was made by the Safety Camera Partnerships to the effect that "the effect will wear off when people realise that they won't be fined". This was refuted by the author of the report however.
So, if the report is correct, can we expect to see no further cameras being installed, and a raft of vehicle-operated warning signs out there?
The result may be telling in terms of what HMG really care about...
For several days there was a portable vehicle activated speed/slow down sign on a residential road here in Basel. On the first day, most drivers in front(of me) were speeding (but not much). By the last day everyone was below/at the limit.
I think they are a much better idea, and then throw the book at persistant speeders in residential areas.
Does need sensible limits in the first place though.
Sparks
>> Edited by sparks on Wednesday 26th March 12:36
I think they are a much better idea, and then throw the book at persistant speeders in residential areas.
Does need sensible limits in the first place though.
Sparks
>> Edited by sparks on Wednesday 26th March 12:36
I rather like these illuminated vehicle triggered signs. I was out on an extended country drive in Wiltshire (can't remember quite where) and making rapid progress.
Now I *was* reading the road and was slowing accordingly as I approached a blind 90 degree right hander over a hump-back bridge. Of course...the rate at which I was slowing was a decent proportion of the full capability of Stuttgart's finest...
Therefore I triggered the "SLOW" sign which also had a hump-back bridge sign under it.
Since I was concentrating (very) hard at the time on the job in hand the sign was unnecessary..for me...on that occasion.
On lots of other occasions (when tired etc) it would have been jolly useful I'm sure. And I'm certain that the numpties would benefit from being "shocked" with the information..
Their use could be *so* much greater than just "SLOW DOWN - SPEED LIMIT". I'm all in favour of 'em.
>> Edited by Don on Wednesday 26th March 12:44
Now I *was* reading the road and was slowing accordingly as I approached a blind 90 degree right hander over a hump-back bridge. Of course...the rate at which I was slowing was a decent proportion of the full capability of Stuttgart's finest...
Therefore I triggered the "SLOW" sign which also had a hump-back bridge sign under it.
Since I was concentrating (very) hard at the time on the job in hand the sign was unnecessary..for me...on that occasion.
On lots of other occasions (when tired etc) it would have been jolly useful I'm sure. And I'm certain that the numpties would benefit from being "shocked" with the information..
Their use could be *so* much greater than just "SLOW DOWN - SPEED LIMIT". I'm all in favour of 'em.
>> Edited by Don on Wednesday 26th March 12:44
Seem like a good idea to me, particularly on single carriageway roads. Think the impact would evaporate entirely in busy traffic on a dual carriageway. But ... oooh, what about using appropriate solutions for individual problems, rather than a single headline grabber??
Local council used something similar on a country road in Kent ... backfired completley because it told you what speed you were doing and it was placed badly (on a straight narrow road outside a built up area). Local boyz were having a competition to see who could set the highest speed ... now how predictable was that?
Local council used something similar on a country road in Kent ... backfired completley because it told you what speed you were doing and it was placed badly (on a straight narrow road outside a built up area). Local boyz were having a competition to see who could set the highest speed ... now how predictable was that?
I got zapped by one of these on a business trip, it really shook me up as I thought it could so easily have been a revenue grabber.
I slowed down for the rest of the day out of simple grattitude to the person who put a benign item there instead of a 'rape the motorist' type affair.
VERY effective. It's also true that I was going too fast as I was tired and lost concentration. It woke me up a lot as well, hence serving a double safety roll.
It was placed halfway round a tightening off camber bend. THATS decent speed enforcement.
I slowed down for the rest of the day out of simple grattitude to the person who put a benign item there instead of a 'rape the motorist' type affair.
VERY effective. It's also true that I was going too fast as I was tired and lost concentration. It woke me up a lot as well, hence serving a double safety roll.
It was placed halfway round a tightening off camber bend. THATS decent speed enforcement.
I think its a decent idea. Not a good idea to dislpay the speed tho, as it simply encourages bolt on boy to be silly.
I tell you now, if gatsos were replaced with these signs, itd make a difference overnight.
I particularly like the ones where they put up the number of the speeding car.....much better than a camera, and much more acceptable.
I tell you now, if gatsos were replaced with these signs, itd make a difference overnight.
I particularly like the ones where they put up the number of the speeding car.....much better than a camera, and much more acceptable.
Okay how about...
These systems can read your number plate and speed.
So - why not have a unit which logs your speed, reg and the time whilst also giving you a visual warning.
Then that data is blatted down a line to the BiB and they can look for repeat offenders (Mr Smith who drives past the school everynight at 50mph because there's no kids there.) then timetable a speed trap to catch him.
A good stern telling off by the Police (and points maybe) is FAR more effective than a bit of paper about some incident a few weeks ago that you don't really remember...
Its a bit like teaching dogs - Reward and Punishment MUST be at the time of the behaviour.
These systems can read your number plate and speed.
So - why not have a unit which logs your speed, reg and the time whilst also giving you a visual warning.
Then that data is blatted down a line to the BiB and they can look for repeat offenders (Mr Smith who drives past the school everynight at 50mph because there's no kids there.) then timetable a speed trap to catch him.
A good stern telling off by the Police (and points maybe) is FAR more effective than a bit of paper about some incident a few weeks ago that you don't really remember...
Its a bit like teaching dogs - Reward and Punishment MUST be at the time of the behaviour.
alunr said: Okay how about...
These systems can read your number plate and speed.
So - why not have a unit which logs your speed, reg and the time whilst also giving you a visual warning.
Then that data is blatted down a line to the BiB and they can look for repeat offenders (Mr Smith who drives past the school everynight at 50mph because there's no kids there.) then timetable a speed trap to catch him.
A good stern telling off by the Police (and points maybe) is FAR more effective than a bit of paper about some incident a few weeks ago that you don't really remember...
Its a bit like teaching dogs - Reward and Punishment MUST be at the time of the behaviour.
Then they can also tax you on the number of miles that you do, and monitor where you go and when you go there - NO THANKS!
Jumbojumbo said: Then they can also tax you on the number of miles that you do, and monitor where you go and when you go there - NO THANKS!
Paranoid? If this information is collected for crime prevention purposes then that is all it can be used for.
If the govt want to tax you per mile then they'll do it - they wont have to hide it inside another device.
The technology is out there.
I made this very point in a letter I sent to David Jameson, the Transport minister (no reply yet!). They give you the opportunity to behave in an adult and responsible manner, and I think they work because they give a reason for slowing down. It doesn't attack individual liberty, it makes you socially aware, and puts the onus on the driver to think about his actions. Couple these signs with some road engineering at accident blackspots, and the casualty rate will be reduced. Cameras take away the sense of resonsibility, and let's face it, us lads are just kids with body hair and reproductive ability, and we hate being told "Do what I tell you"
I like them. There's one in a village I pass through on my way home from work. When it first went up, huge numbers of people ignored it, but it seems that now, you hardly ever see it flash - the opposite effect to that of a speed camera (which becomes progressively less effective the longer it is sited). What's more, the 30 limit starts about 1/2 mile before the illuminated sign, but since it's been installed, most people observe the 30 right from the start.
I'd say that was a result (but only if your primary objective is to make the road safer, not to generate revenue).
I'd say that was a result (but only if your primary objective is to make the road safer, not to generate revenue).
I have tended to take notice of these, and slowed down when they flash up my speed if over the limit.
Why? because there is a whole different psychology behind them.
They are non-offensive ie dont charge you or put points on the licence
therefore
Their operation and placement can be seen to be based on a real effort to improve safety and not just generate revenue
and
By reminding you of your speed and possible speeding they emphasis that you have to make a choice ie carry on speeding or slow down. Most people will act in a right and proper manner and slow down.
Why? because there is a whole different psychology behind them.
They are non-offensive ie dont charge you or put points on the licence
therefore
Their operation and placement can be seen to be based on a real effort to improve safety and not just generate revenue
and
By reminding you of your speed and possible speeding they emphasis that you have to make a choice ie carry on speeding or slow down. Most people will act in a right and proper manner and slow down.
Don said: I rather like these illuminated vehicle triggered signs. I was out on an extended country drive in Wiltshire (can't remember quite where) and making rapid progress.
I think it's the one coming out of Marlborough towards Burbage by the descrption you give, Don.
They are all over Wiltshire and they work well. They don't 'surprise' drivers like speed cameras, they remind you of the speed limit and the best ones tell you why you should slow down. They leave the responsibility for safe driving with the motorist.
Unfortunately, unless they can me made to tax drivers, they won't be universally adopted.
And the crap from the 'safety' camera people about people ignoring them once they find out they won't be fined assumes all drivers are intent on breaking the law, which is the precise problem with speed cameras, they assume people speed with malicious intent. Personally I like to think of myself as a responsible driver and therefore my respect for a system which actively seeks to punish me without recourse diminishes. A system which informs me and trusts that I'm not a homicidal maniac intent on mowing down every 'innocent' pedestrian and cyclist I see on the other hand strikes me as eminently sensible.
When will this government realise that the British people resent being told what to do, but on the whole are responsible and eminently capable of behaving in a socally responsible manner.
Edited because I was ranting and not checking my spelling....
>> Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 27th March 14:54
>> Edited by Mark Benson on Thursday 27th March 14:55
Mark Benson said: I think it's the one coming out of Marlborough towards Burbage by the descrption you give, Don.
Could well be, Mark. They did work well. I used the information although the Mrs still said "I can't believe you took those corners so fast"
The important thing is I could stop in the distance I could see to be clear ....
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