Scameraship say death is not an excuse...
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Liverpool Echo
Liverpool Echo said:
He's dead?... That's no excuse for speeding
THE family of a cancer victim say he is being hounded in death over an unpaid speeding ticket.
They received a letter accusing William Allen of speeding down Balliol Road in Bootle seven months after his family held his funeral.
But when his daughter queried the penalty, and sent his death certificate to the Speed Camera Enforcement Unit, she was told the authorities had enough evidence to pursue the matter and that “mitigating circumstances cannot be considered”.
Mr Allen’s daughter Patricia Cross received the notice of prosecution on December 22, which would have been his 78th birthday.
Today, speed camera officials said they regretted the tone of the letter and blamed their computer system.
Kirkby woman Mrs Cross, who is in remission from cancer, said: “It has brought back all the pain of Dad’s death.
“I just can’t believe they would be so uncaring. I think it is outrageous that they can send letters like this to people as if the fact that he had died was of no consequence whatsoever.
“If a death certificate isn’t enough proof, I don’t know what is.”
Mr Allen, an engineer, was diagnosed with asbestos-related lung cancer in January last year. He died the following May.
His family sold his Vauxhall Vectra shortly after his death, but the new owner is not registered with the DVLA.
Until that happens, any motoring offence will continue to be blamed on Mr Allen.
Dave Foulkes, project manager for Merseyside Road Safety Camera Partnership, said: “I regret the tone and content of the letter which was sent to Mrs Cross.
“These notices are issued by computer, and as Mr Allen is still registered as the owner of the vehicle I would urge his family to contact the DVLA urgently to have his name removed.
“Until then, they will continue to receive penalty notices intended for the current owner.”
Mrs Cross, a civil servant, said: “It can’t be blamed only on a computer.
“Surely a person had to open and read my letter and then have a reply sent out.
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded sensitively and quickly ended the matter.
“They have dealt with this without any humanity, sympathy or acknowledgement of our family’s loss.
“Dad had such a wicked sense of humour, he would be rolling about laughing.
“But I worry about what will happen next. My big fear is that there be a policeman at the door saying the car has run over a child.
THE family of a cancer victim say he is being hounded in death over an unpaid speeding ticket.
They received a letter accusing William Allen of speeding down Balliol Road in Bootle seven months after his family held his funeral.
But when his daughter queried the penalty, and sent his death certificate to the Speed Camera Enforcement Unit, she was told the authorities had enough evidence to pursue the matter and that “mitigating circumstances cannot be considered”.
Mr Allen’s daughter Patricia Cross received the notice of prosecution on December 22, which would have been his 78th birthday.
Today, speed camera officials said they regretted the tone of the letter and blamed their computer system.
Kirkby woman Mrs Cross, who is in remission from cancer, said: “It has brought back all the pain of Dad’s death.
“I just can’t believe they would be so uncaring. I think it is outrageous that they can send letters like this to people as if the fact that he had died was of no consequence whatsoever.
“If a death certificate isn’t enough proof, I don’t know what is.”
Mr Allen, an engineer, was diagnosed with asbestos-related lung cancer in January last year. He died the following May.
His family sold his Vauxhall Vectra shortly after his death, but the new owner is not registered with the DVLA.
Until that happens, any motoring offence will continue to be blamed on Mr Allen.
Dave Foulkes, project manager for Merseyside Road Safety Camera Partnership, said: “I regret the tone and content of the letter which was sent to Mrs Cross.
“These notices are issued by computer, and as Mr Allen is still registered as the owner of the vehicle I would urge his family to contact the DVLA urgently to have his name removed.
“Until then, they will continue to receive penalty notices intended for the current owner.”
Mrs Cross, a civil servant, said: “It can’t be blamed only on a computer.
“Surely a person had to open and read my letter and then have a reply sent out.
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded sensitively and quickly ended the matter.
“They have dealt with this without any humanity, sympathy or acknowledgement of our family’s loss.
“Dad had such a wicked sense of humour, he would be rolling about laughing.
“But I worry about what will happen next. My big fear is that there be a policeman at the door saying the car has run over a child.
Bloody awful. Strange though that the police have no involvement yet the family choose to remark that they are afraid the police will turn up at their door.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
gently bentley said:
Bloody awful. Strange though that the police have no involvement yet the family choose to remark that they are afraid the police will turn up at their door.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
Sadly, that is often the case these days ... that the police are involved by the scamera pratnership (or another self-serving, egotistical organisation). It's one of the things that (in such cases) contributes to bringing the BiB involved into disrepute - Streaky The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
tigger1 said:
That's terrible - and to try to blame a "computer error" is stupid. A person responded to the letter...not a computer.
It tells you all you need to know about these people. I suspect it the "computer" didn't get passed the "Dear Sirs" line in the letter. Once £60 didn't fall out the envelope the "computer" would have the only key on their keyboard labelled "chase for money with all possible vigor".
gently bentley said:
Bloody awful. Strange though that the police have no involvement yet the family choose to remark that they are afraid the police will turn up at their door.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
Which part of "Partnership" are you struggling with? The only people that seem not to have worked out that having a different logo and name is merely a flag of convience appear to be the police. No wonder the CC keep scratching their heads trying to work out where the trust and respect has gone bluepolarbear said:
tigger1 said:
That's terrible - and to try to blame a "computer error" is stupid. A person responded to the letter...not a computer.
It tells you all you need to know about these people. I suspect it the "computer" didn't get passed the "Dear Sirs" line in the letter. Once £60 didn't fall out the envelope the "computer" would have the only key on their keyboard labelled "chase for money with all possible vigor".
Sadly yes. I'm sure a lot of us have long suspected it and here's the proof. How much further can the scammers plummet in (most logical) people's estimations?
gently bentley said:
Bloody awful. Strange though that the police have no involvement yet the family choose to remark that they are afraid the police will turn up at their door.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
Aren't NIPs printed on local constabulary headed letters. If you get a letter with the crest of local plod on it, it's not unreasonable to assume that local plod have something to do with it, even if they don't.
I like the way the SCPs absolve themselves of all blame by stating it was a computer error (I assume the computer in question has been given a written warning...).
Whilst not defending the scamps who appear to have allowed common sense ato fly out of the window along with their morals I note:-
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded sensitively and quickly ended the matter."
Yeah right, and who has first call on moneys /debts and errr yes taxes owing from the deceased's estate?
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded and quickly ended the matter by demanding the executors contact us immediately in order to pay us the money which was now immediately due!"
re Pratnerships, the Council, the NHS and other bodies are also partners in these enterprises but they don't get the same crap handed out as plod does. Obvious reasons why, but it is still the case.
Mrs Cross a civil servant said:
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded sensitively and quickly ended the matter."
Yeah right, and who has first call on moneys /debts and errr yes taxes owing from the deceased's estate?
to be accurate what she probably should have said:
“I used to work for the Inland Revenue and we received thousands of letters each day. Whenever we were told the taxpayer had died we responded and quickly ended the matter by demanding the executors contact us immediately in order to pay us the money which was now immediately due!"
re Pratnerships, the Council, the NHS and other bodies are also partners in these enterprises but they don't get the same crap handed out as plod does. Obvious reasons why, but it is still the case.
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 26th January 10:53
Flat in Fifth said:
re Pratnerships, the Council, the NHS and other bodies are also partners in these enterprises but they don't get the same crap handed out as plod does. Obvious reasons why, but it is still the case.
You missed the magristrate's court who are also partners - presumbly to ensure justice is served or should that be money received?
They've basically automated the system to such a degree to eke out as much profit as possible that all common sense and humanity has been removed. Although with human beaurocrats involved I'm not sure the response would have been any different....
I would have feigned a seizure and blamed the stress caused - get some of the money back off them.
I would have feigned a seizure and blamed the stress caused - get some of the money back off them.
gently bentley said:
Bloody awful. Strange though that the police have no involvement yet the family choose to remark that they are afraid the police will turn up at their door.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
The police for once seem to be the only people that have not arsed it up yet the comic (sorry newspaper) tend to suggest the police are involved to some degree.
Not really what the quote was saying though is it?
"My big fear is that there be a policeman at the door saying the car has run over a child."
So her fear is that something much more significant then a technical driving infringement occurs and that as a result, with her late Father still being on the DVLA records, they will be visited in a way that she would prefer not to know about.
The family made a mistake in not ensuring they sent of the V5 it seems.
And no doubt Mrs. Cross's fear is re-inforced by the strong media message that all drivers of incorrectly registered/allegedly uninsured and/or un- taxed vehicles are rabid criminals. Which as we all know must be arse about face or we have 2.1 million rabid criminals out there (or more) and (former Dr.) John Reid should be considering a massive and urgent prison build program rather than extensions of FPNs for the untraceables.
But in the end this is a media qote and maybe should not be taken at its typeface value.
Mind you, did I hear somewhere that the penalty for not sending in the V5 change of ownership slip is a minimum 10years inside, no parole and a lifetime driving ban? Maybe she should be worried.
And of course it is just possible that the V5 change info has indeed been provided but that it didn't quite make it onto the DVLA computer systems. They are known not to be all that up to date or accurate for example.
No doubt there are also other possible explanations ...
LongQ said:
And of course it is just possible that the V5 change info has indeed been provided but that it didn't quite make it onto the DVLA computer systems. They are known not to be all that up to date or accurate for example.
No doubt there are also other possible explanations ...
I wouldn’t suppose the DVLA people don’t make mistakes but almost all of the non trivial errors are due to failures by the public to return the V5s. Having sold a vehicle yesterday, and watched the buyer fill in his details on the V5, I can also see why there are so many name and address spelling mistakes in the database.
herewego said:
LongQ said:
And of course it is just possible that the V5 change info has indeed been provided but that it didn't quite make it onto the DVLA computer systems. They are known not to be all that up to date or accurate for example.
No doubt there are also other possible explanations ...
I wouldn’t suppose the DVLA people don’t make mistakes but almost all of the non trivial errors are due to failures by the public to return the V5s. Having sold a vehicle yesterday, and watched the buyer fill in his details on the V5, I can also see why there are so many name and address spelling mistakes in the database.
Maybe. But there can be considerable delay, it seems, between a change and the information appearing in the database. When one of my daughters took delivery of a new leased car back in the summer it was several weeks before the number appeared in the online enquiry database. That means either that the system is not very good even for new registrations from which they collect money of the on-line enquiry as not as on-line as we might think and therefore of less value to Joe Public.
As for spelling mistakes - Names I could imagine due to mis-reading, but addresses should have no excuse since a Post Code and suitable building identification is all that is required. Nearly all other large organisations seem to manage to get it right and some smaller ones as well, so the DVLA ought to be capable of integrating an address checker. And probably have.
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