Wednesday 31st January 2007

Speed camera control goes local?

Government passes on political hot potato

---

The Department for Transport (DfT) is expected to publish new rules for the use of speed cameras today, according to road safety campaign Safe Speed.

The campaign said that the 'national speed camera programme' will be wound up at the end of March, with the department shifting the responsibility for managing speed cameras onto local authorities.

Campaign founder Paul Smith said: "Speed cameras have failed as a road safety policy - rather than admit the failure DfT seems to be hoping that it will slip away.

"The new funding arrangements will lead to substantial and ongoing cuts in the speed camera programme because the funding grants are not ring-fenced for speed cameras, and other road safety initiatives will make increasing demands on the capped funds."

According to Smith, the speed camera programme has been built on two illusions:

1. The 'benefit illusion' of 'regression to the mean' -- at least three quarters of the benefit claimed for cameras has been a statistical effect resulting from installing cameras where crashes have been unusually bad and expected to reduce anyway.
2. Neglect of the negative side effects of speed cameras. The side effects are wide ranging and deadly, said Smith, with at least 30 known side effects. According to Smith, these include damage to the police-public relationship, false safety messages, driver distraction, and distortion of safety priorities.

"Many of the side effects bear directly on our most precious road safety asset - driver quality. It's great to see an end to the national speed camera programme - it's a step on the path to better road safety and an end to use of speed cameras," he said.

[chris_crossley]

Does this mean if we complain to our local MP's we can get them removed?
They are more likely to be sympathetic to the cause. Since two of my local MP's
have a great hatred for the abominations.

Serious Question by the way!

Edited by chris_crossley on Wednesday 31st January 12:39

[purple haze]

As a councillor in Somerset I can tell you there are far more pressing items IMHO to spend money on than speed cameras - I'll certainly be doing my best to see them condemned to the garbage bin they richly deserve - I wonder if they could be recycled into something useful?

[sprinter885]

purple haze said:

As a councillor in Somerset I can tell you there are far more pressing items IMHO to spend money on than speed cameras - I'll certainly be doing my best to see them condemned to the garbage bin they richly deserve - I wonder if they could be recycled into something useful?

Well said that man..! How about combining them all towards making a new floating prison to house all these criminals,paedos and everybody else that are still at large! (Let's face it , it wouldn't be too drastic if the metal was a little thin--would it??let's "Home the Homeless"

[hollowpockets]

a step in the right direction, more important thing they could be doing with the money and other ways of improving the standard of driving, driving test for one should be a bit more strict and include far more than learning how to move a car from a-b

[chris_crossley]

hollowpockets said:

a step in the right direction, more important thing they could be doing with the money and other ways of improving the standard of driving, driving test for one should be a bit more strict and include far more than learning how to move a car from a-b

I drive through Bradford so any improvment would reallllllly be nice!

[BigBob]

chris_crossley said:

Does this mean if we complain to our local MP's we can get them removed?
They are more likely to be sympathetic to the cause. Since two of my local MP's
have a great hatred for the abominations.

Serious Question by the way!

Edited by chris_crossley on Wednesday 31st January 12:39

Serious answer. IF control is passed to Local Authorities, while lobbying your local MP's may have some effect, the ones you really need to go after are your local councillors, a list of whom should be available on your local council's website.




BB

[puggit]

BigBob said:

chris_crossley said:

Does this mean if we complain to our local MP's we can get them removed?
They are more likely to be sympathetic to the cause. Since two of my local MP's
have a great hatred for the abominations.

Serious Question by the way!

Edited by chris_crossley on Wednesday 31st January 12:39

Serious answer. IF control is passed to Local Authorities, while lobbying your local MP's may have some effect, the ones you really need to go after are your local councillors, a list of whom should be available on your local council's website.

I'm already after my lead Transport councillor, and put an official complaint in about him this week

[sprinter885]

Just had a thought- does this apparent change in policy ONLY relate to fixed scameras (Gatso etc)? If it does & Local Authorities show no appetite for maintaining them will they instead opt to replace with more mobiles via "Safety (joke) Partnerships"..?? Might not be such good news.

[oogieboogie]

purple haze said:

As a councillor in Somerset I can tell you there are far more pressing items IMHO to spend money on than speed cameras

Money AND time.

[turbobungle]

Local authorities get control and therefore ALL the revenue, look forward to more scameras in your area soon!

www.turbobungle.com

[711]

I'm not sure this is such a good idea to be honest.

Where money can be collected in fines and penalties, we've seen local councils pursuing transgressors with vigour when it comes to parking, etc.

We have also seen some councils take a very anti car attitude. Oxfordshire springs to mind for a start. Richmond would be another topical example.

I would suggest that we are about to see a rash of lowered limits, coupled with cheap to maintain and run moneytrons. There have also been recent rumours of a much more cost effective average speed system than SPECS, and I don't need to outline the implications of that.

Can you imagine someone like Ken Livingstone having the power to set and enforce speed limits? I'm really not sure if this is a good thing at all

Edited by 711 on Wednesday 31st January 14:11

[fat tony]

Good man! We have a road safety partnership in our village. Nice posters but never seen them! Spoke to plod in charge said if they would be civi/local people with speed guns. They take your reg and note speed. Then hand it in at the end of the day. You then get a letter telling you off! Best I don't upset my neighbours on a Sunday warming the motor up for a run!?

[odyssey2200]

[redacted]

[puffpuff]

odyssey2200 said:

Can you imaging all the little hitlers in your local council now having some real power to ascert over us?

They must be rubbing their hands with glee!

I resent that! I'm a councillor and the last thing I will be doing will be promoting the spread of speed cameras on my patch. A year or so back I had a local mobile site removed after I discovered it didn't meet guidelines - much to the displeasure of the Safety Camera Partnership who accused me of all manner of anti-social things in the local press.

There are far more pressing things for councillors to do with their time (and spend taxpayers money on) than prat about putting pins in maps where they think speed cameras should be sited.

Sure, there will be some who may see it as a way to subsidise council tax but over my dead body - assuming I'm re-elected in May!

[nigel_bytes]

Perhaps we could put all the redundant cameras outside 10 downing street and everytime Bliar told a lie they all flash, I can imagine the fantastic light show, and just imagine the enormous revenue

[Boosted LS1]

puffpuff said:

odyssey2200 said:

Can you imaging all the little hitlers in your local council now having some real power to ascert over us?

They must be rubbing their hands with glee!

I resent that! I'm a councillor and the last thing I will be doing will be promoting the spread of speed cameras on my patch. A year or so back I had a local mobile site removed after I discovered it didn't meet guidelines - much to the displeasure of the Safety Camera Partnership who accused me of all manner of anti-social things in the local press.

Big cheer, top man How did you get them to move the mobile site?

Boosted.

[odyssey2200]

puffpuff said:

odyssey2200 said:

Can you imaging all the little hitlers in your local council now having some real power to ascert over us?

They must be rubbing their hands with glee!

I resent that! I'm a councillor and the last thing I will be doing will be promoting the spread of speed cameras on my patch. A year or so back I had a local mobile site removed after I discovered it didn't meet guidelines - much to the displeasure of the Safety Camera Partnership who accused me of all manner of anti-social things in the local press.

There are far more pressing things for councillors to do with their time (and spend taxpayers money on) than prat about putting pins in maps where they think speed cameras should be sited.

Sure, there will be some who may see it as a way to subsidise council tax but over my dead body - assuming I'm re-elected in May!

Good I apollogise to you but can you assure me that there are no little hitlers in councils who are just loving this?

[711]

puffpuff said:

There are far more pressing things for councillors to do with their time (and spend taxpayers money on) than prat about putting pins in maps where they think speed cameras should be sited.

Sure, there will be some who may see it as a way to subsidise council tax but over my dead body - assuming I'm re-elected in May!

Wish there were a few more like you

I'm still worried though

What proportion of your fellow councillors think the way you do? Also, what is the most effective way to lobby a councillor? Is it different to what you'd need to do to influence your local MP for example? Ta!

[odyssey2200]

So the bad news is that Councils can put a camera anywhere now Without the need for their to have been a history of accidents at the location.

So all those councils that have overspent on their budgets have a licence to print money to ofset the deficit.

Thanks a bunch!

[puffpuff]

Boosted LS1 said:

puffpuff said:

odyssey2200 said:

Can you imaging all the little hitlers in your local council now having some real power to ascert over us?

They must be rubbing their hands with glee!

I resent that! I'm a councillor and the last thing I will be doing will be promoting the spread of speed cameras on my patch. A year or so back I had a local mobile site removed after I discovered it didn't meet guidelines - much to the displeasure of the Safety Camera Partnership who accused me of all manner of anti-social things in the local press.

Big cheer, top man How did you get them to move the mobile site?

Boosted.

I checked the guidelines for camera placement on my local Safety Camera Partnership website and spotted that this particular one didn't meet the criteria regarding the nummber of accidents within a certain period of time so I challenged it and it was removed.

I may have posted in PH at the time to suggest others check locally - I can't remember.