just following orders?
Discussion
Sitting at traffic lights in the center of MK the other day, a police van came up behind traffic waiting on the other side of the road. The van was third back from the lights (which were on red) and as it came to a halt all the lights and noise came on and it started cycling through all the various sirens it had. Obviously the driver wanted the cars in front to get out of his way, but there were concrete barriers on both sides and nowhere to go but through the red lights. So the two cars in front of him pulled out past the red lights into the junction and stopped in the middle of the road so he could get past - forcing cars going the other way to stop.
Now I guess it's OK to go through red lights if a police man explicitly ordered me to, but is it right to go through them just to get out of the way? I wouldn't be at all surprised to get pulled for this. On the other hand, if I'm in the way and don't move would I be guilty of obstruction? What's the legal position here?
Now I guess it's OK to go through red lights if a police man explicitly ordered me to, but is it right to go through them just to get out of the way? I wouldn't be at all surprised to get pulled for this. On the other hand, if I'm in the way and don't move would I be guilty of obstruction? What's the legal position here?
There is no legal obligation to move from the path of a Police vehicle with its Emergency equipment going. However, the equipment is on for a reason, to which officers have to attend as a 'code 1' response. This could be anything at all classed as an immediate emergency.
By moving through a red light thereby allowing a police vehicle through you will not get prosecuted. The driver had a very good reason to 'request' you to move, and in my experience, it is a last resort to request drivers to contravene a red traffic light in order for a police vehicle to proceed. If there is any danger of an incident occuring as a result, the police driver should not activate strobes / sirens.
I find it extremely helpful when people do as you did in making way in a sensible manner rather than jamming the anchors on in front of you. (which is where forward thinking comes into it!)
By moving through a red light thereby allowing a police vehicle through you will not get prosecuted. The driver had a very good reason to 'request' you to move, and in my experience, it is a last resort to request drivers to contravene a red traffic light in order for a police vehicle to proceed. If there is any danger of an incident occuring as a result, the police driver should not activate strobes / sirens.
I find it extremely helpful when people do as you did in making way in a sensible manner rather than jamming the anchors on in front of you. (which is where forward thinking comes into it!)
Uncle was hit 3 years ago by another driver who was forced through a red light by police with blues/twos on as he was proceeding through his green light... insurance claim for damage and loss of earnings (he was a private-hire driver) is still ongoing! Basically there is an argument as to who is to blame (police or other driver).
So if you do go through a red light for any reason, be prepared for the consequences!
So if you do go through a red light for any reason, be prepared for the consequences!
As a matter of interest, how was he forced? At gunpoint, or was his car pushed out by the police car? If so fair enough, otherwise your Uncle was in error by pulling out into the path of oncoming traffic. The police were contributory for sure but not at fault unless either of the above scenarios apply.
>> Edited by kevinday on Friday 11th April 10:59
>> Edited by kevinday on Friday 11th April 10:59
I'm afraid I totally agree on the side that you should still not go through a red light even if a copper is trying to make you do it via his sirens.
I've had this out with cops before and my response was simply that unless they are prepared to get out of their car and make the junction safe for me to travel through the red light then in view of my safety, other passengers and other road user I will NOT travel through a red light. You have the upper hand as you are the vehicle in front possibly with a better view.
The sooner we stop emergency vehicles flying through these red lights the better.
After all it's all about road safety - in case we had all forgot.
I've had this out with cops before and my response was simply that unless they are prepared to get out of their car and make the junction safe for me to travel through the red light then in view of my safety, other passengers and other road user I will NOT travel through a red light. You have the upper hand as you are the vehicle in front possibly with a better view.
The sooner we stop emergency vehicles flying through these red lights the better.
After all it's all about road safety - in case we had all forgot.
If there is clearly nothing approaching the junction then why not go through?
If you are unsure "creep" forward with you horn sounding and once you are happy that nothing is approaching then clear the junction.
I can understand it if the lights are on a bridge where you cant see round the other side but an open junction... its no big problem.
If you are unsure "creep" forward with you horn sounding and once you are happy that nothing is approaching then clear the junction.
I can understand it if the lights are on a bridge where you cant see round the other side but an open junction... its no big problem.
lucozade said: I'm afraid I totally agree on the side that you should still not go through a red light even if a copper is trying to make you do it via his sirens.
I've had this out with cops before and my response was simply that unless they are prepared to get out of their car and make the junction safe for me to travel through the red light then in view of my safety, other passengers and other road user I will NOT travel through a red light. You have the upper hand as you are the vehicle in front possibly with a better view.
The sooner we stop emergency vehicles flying through these red lights the better.
After all it's all about road safety - in case we had all forgot.
Have to disagree with you here. IMHO the sooner it becomes law for people to give way to 'blues and twos' the safer it will be for all. Not to mention better for the ambulance occupant, house owner being burgled at gunpoint, house owner whose house is burning down.
Have to disagree with you here. IMHO the sooner it becomes law for people to give way to 'blues and twos' the safer it will be for all. Not to mention better for the ambulance occupant, house owner being burgled at gunpoint, house owner whose house is burning down.
Well mate I supposed that's were we differ and everyone is allowed to have their own opinion.
Personally there's no such "noble cause" that justifies a police officer pushing you through a red light unless they are willing to make the junction safe first.
Ok so your house is being burgled or some other terrible crime is happening, does that mean to say that it's ok for a member of the public to go through a red light and cause a bad accident, potentially killing him/herself and others. I don't think so.
Well i've done it and it made perfect sense to me.
sat at a set of traffic lights and plod comming up behind me with blues and two's on. He obviously had a reason for it so i edged out watching the road and let him through.
I was prepared to take the risk rather than hold up the police possibly leading to someones death or a bobby with cold tea
sat at a set of traffic lights and plod comming up behind me with blues and two's on. He obviously had a reason for it so i edged out watching the road and let him through.
I was prepared to take the risk rather than hold up the police possibly leading to someones death or a bobby with cold tea
funkihamsta said: What if you edge forward and flash! get done by a red light camera? Hmm says 'Worms' on this can.
I have been in that situation my self - driving home from work, getting out of the way of an ambulance - crept forward through an ATS on red then cleared the jct. However a week later got a FPN - went back to the lights to check - gatso!!
However a quick call the ambulance HQ confirmed that an ambulance was in that area going to a 999 job - wrote to police and they wrote back saying no further action.
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