Three points for eating at the wheel
Discussion
On my travels last week, I caught sight somewhere of a report that a driver has been given 3 licence points for eating at the wheel...
Don't know if it's true, but we do know about the infamous apple and KitKat eating convictions.
If it IS true, then plod must be banned from using microphones whilst driving. Witness those TV trafpol programmes with lone drivers chasing through housing estates, steering wheel in one hand, mike in the other...
Not really on, is it..?
If I were hauled before the Court on such a charge, I would take with me film of Colin Malkin, 60s/70s international rally driver, on the limit through the forests in his unique style.....right hand on the wheel, left hand permanently moving between gear lever and handbrake.
Now tell me it's not safe...
Pedantry of some plods and courts is pure farce....
Don't know if it's true, but we do know about the infamous apple and KitKat eating convictions.
If it IS true, then plod must be banned from using microphones whilst driving. Witness those TV trafpol programmes with lone drivers chasing through housing estates, steering wheel in one hand, mike in the other...
Not really on, is it..?
If I were hauled before the Court on such a charge, I would take with me film of Colin Malkin, 60s/70s international rally driver, on the limit through the forests in his unique style.....right hand on the wheel, left hand permanently moving between gear lever and handbrake.
Now tell me it's not safe...
Pedantry of some plods and courts is pure farce....
Just a thought...
I do sometimes eat at the wheel, always prepared to drop the food in case I need to get back on the wheel quickly.
This is no more hazardous than taking a hand off the wheel to change gear...
As a matter of interest, I've just been out and driven 4.8 miles, counting the number of times my hand left the wheel to operate the gear lever and heater controls...
67 times...in 4.8 miles
Scary stuff, eh..?
I do sometimes eat at the wheel, always prepared to drop the food in case I need to get back on the wheel quickly.
This is no more hazardous than taking a hand off the wheel to change gear...
As a matter of interest, I've just been out and driven 4.8 miles, counting the number of times my hand left the wheel to operate the gear lever and heater controls...
67 times...in 4.8 miles
Scary stuff, eh..?
You can hold an apple between thumb/forefinger while still retaining hold on the wheel with that hand, leaving the wheel only to take a bite (1-2 secs?) - important point, CONCENTRATION is not lost!
Drinking is FAR more hazardous, yet car manufacturers FIT cup holders for chrise sake!
And what about driver's in the summer months, one hand on wheel t'uther partially outside resting on door?
3 points for that too?
PAH!
Nanny state.
Get rid o' nu labur. Start in May elections by sending 'every' nu labur council to the cleaners.
Drinking is FAR more hazardous, yet car manufacturers FIT cup holders for chrise sake!
And what about driver's in the summer months, one hand on wheel t'uther partially outside resting on door?
3 points for that too?
PAH!
Nanny state.
Get rid o' nu labur. Start in May elections by sending 'every' nu labur council to the cleaners.
Couldn't agree more. I eat and and drink on most journeys I make, but that doesn't affect my concentration on the road ahead & behind in any way. I can quite happily concentrate on the job at hand AND do other things with my hands at the same time. If we couldn't do that then driving would be impossible. It's all about what the mind is doing not the hands!
I think that's why the mobile phone law is such a farce. Engaging your mind in a phone conversation means less attention is being paid to the road for sure, but the fact that you're holding an object to your ear is irrelevant and is infact no different at all to scratching your ear. Yet if you're spotted with phone in hand you will receive 3 points and a fine, but nothing for scratching your ear whilst talking on a hands free?
As it happens, 90% of my time driving I steer with one hand on the wheel. I cover 60k miles per year and am collision free, never claimed on insurance, but could be done any day for eating if I don't spot the police car. Meanwhile thousands of drivers are sticking things all over their windscreens, satnavs, gps and dangling furry dice, that obscure their vision but that's all okay. My windscreen is kept nice and clean but if I hold my hand to my mouth I'm suddenly a danger? I've been a passenger in some vehicles where you can't see out of the windscreen for a smeary layer of fog because it's never been cleaned inside! In direct sunlight that reduces vision enormously. How many people does that apply to?
I think at the end of the day safe driving is about keeping a safe sound vehicle and observing the road ahead with deliberate concentration and anticipating and planning around that. My concentration on the road is 100% when I'm eating a sandwich, and that's UP from 99% when I'm not! So in that respect I guess it's very similar to speed, in as much as when my speed rises above the limit my concentration is at its highest.
I think that's why the mobile phone law is such a farce. Engaging your mind in a phone conversation means less attention is being paid to the road for sure, but the fact that you're holding an object to your ear is irrelevant and is infact no different at all to scratching your ear. Yet if you're spotted with phone in hand you will receive 3 points and a fine, but nothing for scratching your ear whilst talking on a hands free?
As it happens, 90% of my time driving I steer with one hand on the wheel. I cover 60k miles per year and am collision free, never claimed on insurance, but could be done any day for eating if I don't spot the police car. Meanwhile thousands of drivers are sticking things all over their windscreens, satnavs, gps and dangling furry dice, that obscure their vision but that's all okay. My windscreen is kept nice and clean but if I hold my hand to my mouth I'm suddenly a danger? I've been a passenger in some vehicles where you can't see out of the windscreen for a smeary layer of fog because it's never been cleaned inside! In direct sunlight that reduces vision enormously. How many people does that apply to?
I think at the end of the day safe driving is about keeping a safe sound vehicle and observing the road ahead with deliberate concentration and anticipating and planning around that. My concentration on the road is 100% when I'm eating a sandwich, and that's UP from 99% when I'm not! So in that respect I guess it's very similar to speed, in as much as when my speed rises above the limit my concentration is at its highest.
dandarez said:
Drinking is FAR more hazardous, yet car manufacturers FIT cup holders for chrise sake!
I fill one of those Lucozade sports drink (or something) bottles with diluted drinky stuff.
It has a flip top I can open with a thumb and a non return valve on the sucky bit.
Again, it can be dropped instantly.
Edited by mybrainhurts on Sunday 11th March 01:14
There is no doubt in my mind that the greatest threat to road safety at present, is having to drive round constantly looking out for speed detection devices.I would imagine that an enormous percentage of our brain is engaged in looking for yellow boxes and devious little gits hiding in vans camoflaged behind bushes.
Second to that is driving more slowly than the road conditions demand, as your concentration wanders and you get bored. Driving at a sensible pace demands all your concetration and stops you becoming drowsy.
Second to that is driving more slowly than the road conditions demand, as your concentration wanders and you get bored. Driving at a sensible pace demands all your concetration and stops you becoming drowsy.
mybrainhurts said:
I fear police senior management and gullible courts will continue the same attitude, regardless of government....
What we should really be doing is getting rid of some of the stupidly prescriptive laws, not that there's much chance of that, unfortunately. So long as the laws are there, the police will tend to use them, perhaps not always very sensibly.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
http://news.bbc.co.uk:80/1/hi/england
Driver fined for eating sandwich
A motorist has been given three penalty points by police for driving while eating a sandwich.
Keith Pemberton, 29, was finishing a cheese and pickle sandwich as he drove away from a supermarket in Warrington.
The salesman from Salford was stopped by officers carrying out spot checks and was deemed not to be in proper control of his car.
Mr Pemberton, who was also fined £60, said: "Three points is a very harsh punishment for eating a sandwich."
He was spotted by Cheshire Police officers at a roadside checkpoint on the A49.
Mr Pemberton said: Mr Pemberton said: "I was totally shocked when the police pulled me over.
"They said I had not been in proper control of my car, but it's not as if I was swerving all over the road or driving badly."
He said rules about not eating while driving should be better publicised.
He said: "I'd never heard of this law before.
"An officer at my local station thought it was too severe - he said he'd never have given me a ticket for eating a sandwich."
A spokesman for Cheshire Police said the law had "been in place for some time" and was not directly linked to the clampdown on driving while using a mobile phone.
He added: "The officer was right to give this driver a ticket.
"He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was eating a sandwich at the same time."
Driver fined for eating sandwich
A motorist has been given three penalty points by police for driving while eating a sandwich.
Keith Pemberton, 29, was finishing a cheese and pickle sandwich as he drove away from a supermarket in Warrington.
The salesman from Salford was stopped by officers carrying out spot checks and was deemed not to be in proper control of his car.
Mr Pemberton, who was also fined £60, said: "Three points is a very harsh punishment for eating a sandwich."
He was spotted by Cheshire Police officers at a roadside checkpoint on the A49.
Mr Pemberton said: Mr Pemberton said: "I was totally shocked when the police pulled me over.
"They said I had not been in proper control of my car, but it's not as if I was swerving all over the road or driving badly."
He said rules about not eating while driving should be better publicised.
He said: "I'd never heard of this law before.
"An officer at my local station thought it was too severe - he said he'd never have given me a ticket for eating a sandwich."
A spokesman for Cheshire Police said the law had "been in place for some time" and was not directly linked to the clampdown on driving while using a mobile phone.
He added: "The officer was right to give this driver a ticket.
"He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was eating a sandwich at the same time."
From the "Manchester Evening News" site ... Comments on this story seem to agree with the police
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
======
Fine for munching motorist
Alan Salter
8/ 3/2007
SALESMAN Keith Pemberton has been hit with a £60 fine and had three points slapped on his licence - for eating a cheese and pickle sandwich behind the wheel.
Police told him he had fallen foul of the tough new penalties for drivers using hand-held mobile phones.
Keith, who was given a fixed penalty notice and seven days to produce his documents, was told the new rules applied to eating behind the wheel, as well as making or receiving calls.
"In my mind, I was completely in control of the car," said Keith, 29.
"You see people putting on make-up and all sorts of things at the wheel. I have never been pulled over by the police for anything before and I think three points is a bit much."
Keith, from Salford, was travelling between two supermarkets in Warrington when he started to eat the £2 white muffin with cheese and pickle.
As he drove his Vauxhall Astra company car along the A49 Lythgoes Lane, he was trapped by a police operation to catch motorists on their mobile phones.
"A policeman stepped out in front of me and pulled me over," said Keith. "He said I had committed an offence which was just as serious as speaking on my mobile.
Control
"When I queried it, he said eating and drinking at the wheel was driving without due care and attention."
Keith said the penalty even caused surprise when he went to his local police station to produce his documents.
"The man behind the desk said he couldn't believe I had been given a ticket," he said.
But a spokesman for the Department of Transport confirmed police had acted correctly. He said: "You are not in full control of your vehicle if you are reading a map or business documents, eating or drinking while driving."
Research has suggested motorists are twice as likely to crash if they are eating behind the wheel. Dr Mark Young, from Brunel University in London, said: "The results of our experiment strongly indicate that eating or drinking while driving increases the risk of a crash.
"Drivers may not perceive the risk to be any higher than other menial in-car tasks, but the impaired reactions combined with the increased workload suggest drivers should exert caution."
A spokesman for Cheshire police said: "Much publicity has been given to the recent changes in the penalties for motorists for using their mobile phones while driving. The law also covers offences relating to drivers not being in proper control of their vehicle and not concentrating fully on the road.
"This covers situations where a driver is doing anything that takes their attention from the road, increasing the danger to others on the road.
"Drivers need to be aware they may be liable to receive a fixed penalty notice if found doing anything that diverts their full attention in this way," he said.
Should drivers be fined for eating while driving? Have your say
=======
(50 comments so far und skewed toward seeming to agree with his fine .. so far
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
======
Fine for munching motorist
Alan Salter
8/ 3/2007
SALESMAN Keith Pemberton has been hit with a £60 fine and had three points slapped on his licence - for eating a cheese and pickle sandwich behind the wheel.
Police told him he had fallen foul of the tough new penalties for drivers using hand-held mobile phones.
Keith, who was given a fixed penalty notice and seven days to produce his documents, was told the new rules applied to eating behind the wheel, as well as making or receiving calls.
"In my mind, I was completely in control of the car," said Keith, 29.
"You see people putting on make-up and all sorts of things at the wheel. I have never been pulled over by the police for anything before and I think three points is a bit much."
Keith, from Salford, was travelling between two supermarkets in Warrington when he started to eat the £2 white muffin with cheese and pickle.
As he drove his Vauxhall Astra company car along the A49 Lythgoes Lane, he was trapped by a police operation to catch motorists on their mobile phones.
"A policeman stepped out in front of me and pulled me over," said Keith. "He said I had committed an offence which was just as serious as speaking on my mobile.
Control
"When I queried it, he said eating and drinking at the wheel was driving without due care and attention."
Keith said the penalty even caused surprise when he went to his local police station to produce his documents.
"The man behind the desk said he couldn't believe I had been given a ticket," he said.
But a spokesman for the Department of Transport confirmed police had acted correctly. He said: "You are not in full control of your vehicle if you are reading a map or business documents, eating or drinking while driving."
Research has suggested motorists are twice as likely to crash if they are eating behind the wheel. Dr Mark Young, from Brunel University in London, said: "The results of our experiment strongly indicate that eating or drinking while driving increases the risk of a crash.
"Drivers may not perceive the risk to be any higher than other menial in-car tasks, but the impaired reactions combined with the increased workload suggest drivers should exert caution."
A spokesman for Cheshire police said: "Much publicity has been given to the recent changes in the penalties for motorists for using their mobile phones while driving. The law also covers offences relating to drivers not being in proper control of their vehicle and not concentrating fully on the road.
"This covers situations where a driver is doing anything that takes their attention from the road, increasing the danger to others on the road.
"Drivers need to be aware they may be liable to receive a fixed penalty notice if found doing anything that diverts their full attention in this way," he said.
Should drivers be fined for eating while driving? Have your say
=======
(50 comments so far und skewed toward seeming to agree with his fine .. so far
Safe Speed issued the following PR at 15:45 on Friday:
PR455: It's all in the mind says Safe Speed
news: for immediate release
According to the BBC, motorist Keith Pemberton, has been given three penalty
points by police for driving while eating a sandwich. Cheshire constabulary are
quoted as saying: "He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was
eating a sandwich at the same time."
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "Cases like this illustrate the gulf between
'official road safety' and real road safety. It is vital that drivers are in
proper control of their vehicles, but proper control is a state of mind, not a
simple matter of what drivers are doing with their hands."
"The problem is that driving is largely a subconscious and highly skilled
activity. The authorities can't see it or define it, so instead they seize upon
what they can see."
"Eating a sandwich while driving can be safe or dangerous. It depends on the
circumstances and what the driver is paying attention to."
"Road safety is in a very bad way - the authorities need to move away from
their over-simplified dogma and start asking skilled drivers what is safe and
what is not. The gap is enormous."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
BBC news report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/me
The current rate of fatal crashes on UK roads is 1 death per 100 million miles
travelled. Many of the deaths we do have are caused by 'extreme' behaviour
(drunks, stolen cars, young reckless drivers showing off, nutty bikers seeking
thrills and so on.) For the rest of us the risk of causing a serious crash is
tiny, probably less than once in 200 million miles. The authorities are paying
NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER to the SKILLED HUMAN BEHAVIOUR that provides the
foundations for this amazing safety record.
Safe Speed recommends MIND DRIVING by Stephen Haley:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2&tag=safespeedroad-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&location=%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1873371160%2F
PR455: It's all in the mind says Safe Speed
news: for immediate release
According to the BBC, motorist Keith Pemberton, has been given three penalty
points by police for driving while eating a sandwich. Cheshire constabulary are
quoted as saying: "He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was
eating a sandwich at the same time."
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "Cases like this illustrate the gulf between
'official road safety' and real road safety. It is vital that drivers are in
proper control of their vehicles, but proper control is a state of mind, not a
simple matter of what drivers are doing with their hands."
"The problem is that driving is largely a subconscious and highly skilled
activity. The authorities can't see it or define it, so instead they seize upon
what they can see."
"Eating a sandwich while driving can be safe or dangerous. It depends on the
circumstances and what the driver is paying attention to."
"Road safety is in a very bad way - the authorities need to move away from
their over-simplified dogma and start asking skilled drivers what is safe and
what is not. The gap is enormous."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
BBC news report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/me
The current rate of fatal crashes on UK roads is 1 death per 100 million miles
travelled. Many of the deaths we do have are caused by 'extreme' behaviour
(drunks, stolen cars, young reckless drivers showing off, nutty bikers seeking
thrills and so on.) For the rest of us the risk of causing a serious crash is
tiny, probably less than once in 200 million miles. The authorities are paying
NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER to the SKILLED HUMAN BEHAVIOUR that provides the
foundations for this amazing safety record.
Safe Speed recommends MIND DRIVING by Stephen Haley:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2&tag=safespeedroad-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&location=%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1873371160%2F
safespeed said:
Safe Speed issued the following PR at 15:45 on Friday:
PR455: It's all in the mind says Safe Speed
news: for immediate release
According to the BBC, motorist Keith Pemberton, has been given three penalty
points by police for driving while eating a sandwich. Cheshire constabulary are
quoted as saying: "He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was
eating a sandwich at the same time."
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "Cases like this illustrate the gulf between
'official road safety' and real road safety. It is vital that drivers are in
proper control of their vehicles, but proper control is a state of mind, not a
simple matter of what drivers are doing with their hands."
"The problem is that driving is largely a subconscious and highly skilled
activity. The authorities can't see it or define it, so instead they seize upon
what they can see."
"Eating a sandwich while driving can be safe or dangerous. It depends on the
circumstances and what the driver is paying attention to."
"Road safety is in a very bad way - the authorities need to move away from
their over-simplified dogma and start asking skilled drivers what is safe and
what is not. The gap is enormous."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
BBC news report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/me
The current rate of fatal crashes on UK roads is 1 death per 100 million miles
travelled. Many of the deaths we do have are caused by 'extreme' behaviour
(drunks, stolen cars, young reckless drivers showing off, nutty bikers seeking
thrills and so on.) For the rest of us the risk of causing a serious crash is
tiny, probably less than once in 200 million miles. The authorities are paying
NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER to the SKILLED HUMAN BEHAVIOUR that provides the
foundations for this amazing safety record.
Safe Speed recommends MIND DRIVING by Stephen Haley:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2&tag=safespeedroad-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&location=%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1873371160%2F
PR455: It's all in the mind says Safe Speed
news: for immediate release
According to the BBC, motorist Keith Pemberton, has been given three penalty
points by police for driving while eating a sandwich. Cheshire constabulary are
quoted as saying: "He cannot have had full control of his vehicle if he was
eating a sandwich at the same time."
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign
(www.safespeed.org.uk) said: "Cases like this illustrate the gulf between
'official road safety' and real road safety. It is vital that drivers are in
proper control of their vehicles, but proper control is a state of mind, not a
simple matter of what drivers are doing with their hands."
"The problem is that driving is largely a subconscious and highly skilled
activity. The authorities can't see it or define it, so instead they seize upon
what they can see."
"Eating a sandwich while driving can be safe or dangerous. It depends on the
circumstances and what the driver is paying attention to."
"Road safety is in a very bad way - the authorities need to move away from
their over-simplified dogma and start asking skilled drivers what is safe and
what is not. The gap is enormous."
<ends>
Notes for editors
=================
BBC news report:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/me
The current rate of fatal crashes on UK roads is 1 death per 100 million miles
travelled. Many of the deaths we do have are caused by 'extreme' behaviour
(drunks, stolen cars, young reckless drivers showing off, nutty bikers seeking
thrills and so on.) For the rest of us the risk of causing a serious crash is
tiny, probably less than once in 200 million miles. The authorities are paying
NO ATTENTION WHATSOEVER to the SKILLED HUMAN BEHAVIOUR that provides the
foundations for this amazing safety record.
Safe Speed recommends MIND DRIVING by Stephen Haley:
www.amazon.co.uk/gp/redirect.html?link_code=ur2&tag=safespeedroad-21&camp=1634&creative=6738&location=%2Fgp%2Fproduct%2F1873371160%2F
Eating the sandwich is not something positive for road safety, it is on the other hand something that can have a detrimental effect. You don't have to eat the sandwich while you are driving & as it is possible that it can have an adverse effect it should be avoided. Take a break & eat the sandwich instead. If you are driving for extended periods you should be taking regular breaks anyway. If you are not driving for extended periods you haven't got long to wait for the sandwich.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 11th March 12:49
vonhosen said:
Eating the sandwich is not something positive for road safety, it is on the other hand something that can have a detrimental effect. You don't have to eat the sandwich while you are driving & as it is possible that it can have an adverse effect it should be avoided. Take a break & eat the sandwich instead. If you are driving for extended periods you should be taking regular breaks anyway. If you are not driving for extended periods you haven't got long to wait for the sandwich.
Neither is talking to a passenger positive for road safety. Would you ban it?
I eat and drink all the time when driving. It makes not one bit of difference to my safety.
Before I pull out of the petrol station at the services, I get my sandwiches primed on the passenger seat. The latte is in the cup holder, and if I've got crisps, the bag is by the side of the sandwiches ready to be opened (a feat I have mastered with both hands still on the wheel).
I'm not looking at the food while reaching for it, or eating it. I'm looking at the road.
Before I pull out of the petrol station at the services, I get my sandwiches primed on the passenger seat. The latte is in the cup holder, and if I've got crisps, the bag is by the side of the sandwiches ready to be opened (a feat I have mastered with both hands still on the wheel).
I'm not looking at the food while reaching for it, or eating it. I'm looking at the road.
flemke said:
vonhosen said:
Eating the sandwich is not something positive for road safety, it is on the other hand something that can have a detrimental effect. You don't have to eat the sandwich while you are driving & as it is possible that it can have an adverse effect it should be avoided. Take a break & eat the sandwich instead. If you are driving for extended periods you should be taking regular breaks anyway. If you are not driving for extended periods you haven't got long to wait for the sandwich.
Neither is talking to a passenger positive for road safety. Would you ban it?
No I wouldn't, but I'd prosecute someone who drove WDCA as a result of it.
Eating the sandwich is far easier to avoid & can affect physical control of the vehicle, as well as mental application to the task.
Parrot of Doom said:
I eat and drink all the time when driving. It makes not one bit of difference to my safety.
Before I pull out of the petrol station at the services, I get my sandwiches primed on the passenger seat. The latte is in the cup holder, and if I've got crisps, the bag is by the side of the sandwiches ready to be opened (a feat I have mastered with both hands still on the wheel).
I'm not looking at the food while reaching for it, or eating it. I'm looking at the road.
Before I pull out of the petrol station at the services, I get my sandwiches primed on the passenger seat. The latte is in the cup holder, and if I've got crisps, the bag is by the side of the sandwiches ready to be opened (a feat I have mastered with both hands still on the wheel).
I'm not looking at the food while reaching for it, or eating it. I'm looking at the road.
Well you think it's acceptable, but that doesn't mean everyone will agree with you.
Why not eat the sandwich before you move off ?
As I said you should take breaks from extended periods & if you don't have to drive for extended periods it's no great hardship.
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