The Law's an Ass!
Discussion
On Friday my 15 year old step-son didn't come home from school. We reported him missing and the police found him on Sunday night at a 15 year old girl's house. Her mother was more than happy to put him up for the weekend.
Today he ran away again, twice. It turns out he's back there again. Apparently there's nothing we can do. Police said that after 13 he can do as he pleases, even if we are his legal guardians!
The wife is more than a little distraught!
Today he ran away again, twice. It turns out he's back there again. Apparently there's nothing we can do. Police said that after 13 he can do as he pleases, even if we are his legal guardians!
The wife is more than a little distraught!
Quinny said:
Why is this someone else's fault??
You're his parents, why do you allow a 15 year old kid dictate what the rules are??
You're his parents, why do you allow a 15 year old kid dictate what the rules are??
1. Because if you give him a slap then he'll go running to the police claiming assault, and the politically correct do-gooders will take his word against the parents.
2. Because if you try locking him in the house, either he'll claim false imprisonment, and you are back to 1., OR he'll break out anyway.
Do you have any 15 year old kids?
I don't, but I do teach them, I just thank god that I can walk away from them. They can be an absolute nightmare, especially because of the way in which the PC do-gooders have ruined our society. I do think in this case that the police are not being particularly helpful, almost smacks of not being bothered.
I'm sure VH will be along in a minute to clear up the legal ins and outs of the situation.
Without knowing any more details of the overall home situation, I have a lot of sympathy with the OP, and am prepared to give him the benefit of any doubt going.
Edited by andmole on Monday 19th March 23:39
timsta said:
Yep! Sure are!
I have found that he isn't allowed to leave without our consent until he's 16, unless he's in danger. However, the police won't get him out and return him! Apparently, after 13 they can't, yet he isn't legaly allowed to leave till 16.
I can't get my head around it!!!!
I have found that he isn't allowed to leave without our consent until he's 16, unless he's in danger. However, the police won't get him out and return him!
Apparently, after 13 they can't, yet he isn't legaly allowed to leave till 16. I can't get my head around it!!!!
I think a touch of pragmatism is being applied here.
Yes, the BiB could turn up and drag him off kicking and screaming to either return him home or to a place of safety.
In reality they, and Social Services know that:
1/ He will almost certainly leg it back there in no time flat
2/ There are very few places available in 'homes'.
3/ Even if he could be found a place in a home he is likely to come into contact with some 'undesirables' and end up the worse for it.
Annoying and frustrating for you I know, but sadly a fact of live to often seen these days. All I can sugest you do is to keep contact open with your son, try to be non-judgemental and supportive of him, let him know you love him and that there will always be a place for him at his home.
Hope it works out for you.
BB
Quinny said:
Well thankfully I'm not a parent
But you must have some leverage over him, how's about good behaviour = rewards of some sort
Bad behaviour = denial of stuff he likes.
There must be somthing, that he coverts (other than his new girlfriend)
How about speeking to the GF mother and asking that she phones you or somthing when he turns up, or ask her to tell him to leave.
Obviously his hormones are ruling his brain at the moment, but that dosen't mean he should get away with doing as he pleases.
But you must have some leverage over him, how's about good behaviour = rewards of some sort
Bad behaviour = denial of stuff he likes.
There must be somthing, that he coverts (other than his new girlfriend)
How about speeking to the GF mother and asking that she phones you or somthing when he turns up, or ask her to tell him to leave.
Obviously his hormones are ruling his brain at the moment, but that dosen't mean he should get away with doing as he pleases.
That's basically the theory of how to manage the behaviour in schools, is fine in theory, but doesn't always work, especially for the hard nuts. However it is getting increasingly difficult to actually remove anything from the little dears, in case we upset someone, or damage their human rights.
I'll go and lie down in a darkened room
BigBob said:
timsta said:
Yep! Sure are!
I have found that he isn't allowed to leave without our consent until he's 16, unless he's in danger. However, the police won't get him out and return him! Apparently, after 13 they can't, yet he isn't legaly allowed to leave till 16.
I can't get my head around it!!!!
I have found that he isn't allowed to leave without our consent until he's 16, unless he's in danger. However, the police won't get him out and return him!
Apparently, after 13 they can't, yet he isn't legaly allowed to leave till 16. I can't get my head around it!!!!
I think a touch of pragmatism is being applied here.
Yes, the BiB could turn up and drag him off kicking and screaming to either return him home or to a place of safety.
In reality they, and Social Services know that:
1/ He will almost certainly leg it back there in no time flat
2/ There are very few places available in 'homes'.
3/ Even if he could be found a place in a home he is likely to come into contact with some 'undesirables' and end up the worse for it.
Annoying and frustrating for you I know, but sadly a fact of live to often seen these days. All I can sugest you do is to keep contact open with your son, try to be non-judgemental and supportive of him, let him know you love him and that there will always be a place for him at his home.
Hope it works out for you.
BB
I'm not even allowed to think what I'm thinking should be done to him. I know what would have happened to me if I had done this when I was 15, so I didn't do it. I have not grown up to be maladjusted, or violent. I have sufficient respect for others to actually want to contribute to society by being a teacher. Yet the system that I grew up with, that created a person who at least attempts to make a positive, respectful contribution to society, has been destroyed by the do gooders who argued that it did the exact opposite.
...and breathe
andmole said:
Quinny said:
Well thankfully I'm not a parent
But you must have some leverage over him, how's about good behaviour = rewards of some sort
Bad behaviour = denial of stuff he likes.
There must be somthing, that he coverts (other than his new girlfriend)
How about speeking to the GF mother and asking that she phones you or somthing when he turns up, or ask her to tell him to leave.
Obviously his hormones are ruling his brain at the moment, but that dosen't mean he should get away with doing as he pleases.
But you must have some leverage over him, how's about good behaviour = rewards of some sort
Bad behaviour = denial of stuff he likes.
There must be somthing, that he coverts (other than his new girlfriend)
How about speeking to the GF mother and asking that she phones you or somthing when he turns up, or ask her to tell him to leave.
Obviously his hormones are ruling his brain at the moment, but that dosen't mean he should get away with doing as he pleases.
That's basically the theory of how to manage the behaviour in schools, is fine in theory, but doesn't always work, especially for the hard nuts. However it is getting increasingly difficult to actually remove anything from the little dears, in case we upset someone, or damage their human rights.
I'll go and lie down in a darkened room
Oh tell me about it ..........
BB
Have you explained to him why he should let you know where he is and that it is upsetting and dis-respectful to you to let you worry about his whereabouts.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
Crippo said:
Have you explained to him why he should let you know where he is and that it is upsetting and dis-respectful to you to let you worry about his whereabouts.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
That's the crux of it though. It doesn't upset me, it upsets his mum. But he's getting his leg over, so he doesn't seem to care.
He has been bought up correctly. He knows right from wrong all to well, he just never seems to care. It's almost like a mental issue, everything seems to revolve around him. Never thinks of the consequences.
timsta said:
Crippo said:
Have you explained to him why he should let you know where he is and that it is upsetting and dis-respectful to you to let you worry about his whereabouts.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
If he has been properly brought up I would imagine that he wouldnt want to upset you on purpose- unless he has issues with you being his Step father, in which case he may be testing you. Then it gets a whole lot harder and I run out of advice sorry ... but good luck.
That's the crux of it though. It doesn't upset me, it upsets his mum. But he's getting his leg over, so he doesn't seem to care.
He has been bought up correctly. He knows right from wrong all to well, he just never seems to care. It's almost like a mental issue, everything seems to revolve around him. Never thinks of the consequences.
Well it says a lot about you as parents
and a lot about the mother of the girl 
I hope this comes to a speedy & sensible conclusion for your peace & sanity. Good luck.
timsta said:
He needs a good thrashing. But we can't do that either!
Perhaps there is a little more to it than him simply "getting his leg over." with threats like that im not surprised he is spending time at the girls house. i know if my dad let alone step dad said anything like that to me i would be straight out the door. you are posting this threat on a public forum, what do you say to him at home? perhaps a nice sit dwon chat would sort things out?
**i dont claim to be in full knowledge off all the facts but at 15 we can all be rational
mattyb123 said:
timsta said:
He needs a good thrashing. But we can't do that either!
Perhaps there is a little more to it than him simply "getting his leg over." with threats like that im not surprised he is spending time at the girls house. i know if my dad let alone step dad said anything like that to me i would be straight out the door. you are posting this threat on a public forum, what do you say to him at home? perhaps a nice sit dwon chat would sort things out?
**i dont claim to be in full knowledge off all the facts but at 15 we can all be rational
The fact you're able to pass a comment like that demonstrates you have never actually had to deal with a recalcitrant teenager. Of course "at 15 we CAN be rational". Doesn't follow that 'we' necessarily are. OP has my sympathy - I have a 15yo who is equally <cough> challenging.
observer2 said:
mattyb123 said:
timsta said:
He needs a good thrashing. But we can't do that either!
Perhaps there is a little more to it than him simply "getting his leg over." with threats like that im not surprised he is spending time at the girls house. i know if my dad let alone step dad said anything like that to me i would be straight out the door. you are posting this threat on a public forum, what do you say to him at home? perhaps a nice sit dwon chat would sort things out?
**i dont claim to be in full knowledge off all the facts but at 15 we can all be rational
The fact you're able to pass a comment like that demonstrates you have never actually had to deal with a recalcitrant teenager. Of course "at 15 we CAN be rational". Doesn't follow that 'we' necessarily are. OP has my sympathy - I have a 15yo who is equally <cough> challenging.
you are quite right i do not have a 15 yr old i have a 17yr old who has gone through the "kevin" stage. they did not feel the need to run away from home at 15 nor at any other age. any other parents out there experience the same thing?
It's called "joined-up government". As more laws are passed - often in knee-jerk reaction to extensive press coverage of a single incident - they will become more contradictory and confusing.
Making the "rights" of children more important than encouraging common sense, inculcating respect (whatever happened to the "Respect Tsar"?), providing a good education, and instilling discipline has had the one of the greatest detrimental effects on our sociery in the past 30 years.
As the father of a son in his mid-twenties and a daughter approaching 30, I am grateful that the upbringing we gave them and the education they received (in church schools, BTW) has turned out two people who understand their role and place in society and how to interact properly with it. My background and experience has given them an understanding of how to avoid the worse aspects of the society successive governments have actually encouraged. I have a grand-daughter ... and fear greatly for the world in which she will grow up, despite the best efforts of my daughter and son-in-law.
Streaky
Making the "rights" of children more important than encouraging common sense, inculcating respect (whatever happened to the "Respect Tsar"?), providing a good education, and instilling discipline has had the one of the greatest detrimental effects on our sociery in the past 30 years.
As the father of a son in his mid-twenties and a daughter approaching 30, I am grateful that the upbringing we gave them and the education they received (in church schools, BTW) has turned out two people who understand their role and place in society and how to interact properly with it. My background and experience has given them an understanding of how to avoid the worse aspects of the society successive governments have actually encouraged. I have a grand-daughter ... and fear greatly for the world in which she will grow up, despite the best efforts of my daughter and son-in-law.
Streaky
andmole said:
I'm not even allowed to think what I'm thinking should be done to him. I know what would have happened to me if I had done this when I was 15, so I didn't do it. I have not grown up to be maladjusted, or violent. I have sufficient respect for others to actually want to contribute to society by being a teacher. Yet the system that I grew up with, that created a person who at least attempts to make a positive, respectful contribution to society, has been destroyed by the do gooders who argued that it did the exact opposite.
...and breathe
Yeah, I was brought up in the same era mate and totally agree with what you say. Received more than my fair share of size 12 gym shoes across the backside from subject teachers for various misdemeanours, 'stripes' from the headmaster (he was the only one allowed to use a cane) and clips around the ear from the local bobby (his favourite trick was to put the old thrupenny bits up the fingers of his gloves).
Unfortunately we have to 'work with what we got', within the legal/social infrastructure that has been allowed to develop.
What frightens me is that I see no sign of common sense kicking in to reverse the trend.
BB
Ist difficult one. Have word with him about birds und bees und dangers of being a Papa at age 15.
Try having a word with the Mama of the girly about your concerns of their relationship.
Try having the girl around to your home for tea .. und if they cannoodle .. bite lip und do not look disapproving .. but set the ground rule that the bedroom ist out of bounds .. but you are prepared to let them have hug und kiss in living room .. und that if you respect their privacy in that respect .. then you do expect respect for home .. rules ... und being in full view of the other folk across road if in the front room
Ist meeting half way.. if you allow the girl around to yours .. he may not run off to hers. Und relationship fizzle off naturally as he then cease to get the buzz of challenging your authority und winding you up.
But ist about being careful to set some ground rules with both these randy youngsters of what you accept und not accept in the house.. und "going all the way" ist not in your rules ... but you have no other objection to refined und polite demonstrations of their affection to each other
Try having a word with the Mama of the girly about your concerns of their relationship.
Try having the girl around to your home for tea .. und if they cannoodle .. bite lip und do not look disapproving .. but set the ground rule that the bedroom ist out of bounds .. but you are prepared to let them have hug und kiss in living room .. und that if you respect their privacy in that respect .. then you do expect respect for home .. rules ... und being in full view of the other folk across road if in the front room
Ist meeting half way.. if you allow the girl around to yours .. he may not run off to hers. Und relationship fizzle off naturally as he then cease to get the buzz of challenging your authority und winding you up.
But ist about being careful to set some ground rules with both these randy youngsters of what you accept und not accept in the house.. und "going all the way" ist not in your rules ... but you have no other objection to refined und polite demonstrations of their affection to each other
WildCat said:
Ist difficult one. Have word with him about birds und bees und dangers of being a Papa at age 15.
Try having a word with the Mama of the girly about your concerns of their relationship.
Try having the girl around to your home for tea .. und if they cannoodle .. bite lip und do not look disapproving .. but set the ground rule that the bedroom ist out of bounds .. but you are prepared to let them have hug und kiss in living room .. und that if you respect their privacy in that respect .. then you do expect respect for home .. rules ... und being in full view of the other folk across road if in the front room
Ist meeting half way.. if you allow the girl around to yours .. he may not run off to hers. Und relationship fizzle off naturally as he then cease to get the buzz of challenging your authority und winding you up.
But ist about being careful to set some ground rules with both these randy youngsters of what you accept und not accept in the house.. und "going all the way" ist not in your rules ... but you have no other objection to refined und polite demonstrations of their affection to each other
Try having a word with the Mama of the girly about your concerns of their relationship.
Try having the girl around to your home for tea .. und if they cannoodle .. bite lip und do not look disapproving .. but set the ground rule that the bedroom ist out of bounds .. but you are prepared to let them have hug und kiss in living room .. und that if you respect their privacy in that respect .. then you do expect respect for home .. rules ... und being in full view of the other folk across road if in the front room
Ist meeting half way.. if you allow the girl around to yours .. he may not run off to hers. Und relationship fizzle off naturally as he then cease to get the buzz of challenging your authority und winding you up.
But ist about being careful to set some ground rules with both these randy youngsters of what you accept und not accept in the house.. und "going all the way" ist not in your rules ... but you have no other objection to refined und polite demonstrations of their affection to each other
Wildy, that is sound advice, and the way we would usually play it. However, the police have bought him home twice now. We hadn't even repremanded him for running away, or even discussed it, because both times he was gone within 30 minutes, without a harsh word from us, or even a look. Queitly sneaks out when we aren't looking, no goodbye,no note, nothing.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff