Cycling Proficiency
Discussion
I watched with growing alarm on the early morning news the innocent, smiling faces of a group of children attempting to master the art of cycling on a public road.
This apparently is the government's latest attempt to encourage children onto the roads and cut down car usage. Oh yes, and it will cut down on obesity!
Are they serious??
I am past the stage of having children; mine thankfully are all grown, but my sympathies go to all parents of young children in this country today. I am interested to know whether or not any of you would let your child out onto a public road on a cycle.
I think it is utter madness; can you imagine a more vulnerable target in today's traffic?
Now you could argue that the way forward to get children out of cars as they grow to be adults, is to turn them into keen cyclists. The problem is of course that they have to survive the process to adulthood, and that includes braving the British weather through the seasons.
The programme was accompanied by wonderfully charismatic fifties black and white film of children passing their test on British roads and cycling all over the country in true stiff upper lip tradition. This was an entirely different era, one I grew up in.
In that era every single child in my street without exception owned a cycle and used it regularly with great enjoyment.
I would say that only about forty percent of these same families owned a car, and it would only be one vehicle per family.
How can you seriously attempt to go back to that kind of scenario in this day and age?
Keep your children safe and off the road: if they have bikes, use an offroad cycle track, that is if you can find one devoid of used needles and drug dealers.
This apparently is the government's latest attempt to encourage children onto the roads and cut down car usage. Oh yes, and it will cut down on obesity!
Are they serious??
I am past the stage of having children; mine thankfully are all grown, but my sympathies go to all parents of young children in this country today. I am interested to know whether or not any of you would let your child out onto a public road on a cycle.
I think it is utter madness; can you imagine a more vulnerable target in today's traffic?
Now you could argue that the way forward to get children out of cars as they grow to be adults, is to turn them into keen cyclists. The problem is of course that they have to survive the process to adulthood, and that includes braving the British weather through the seasons.
The programme was accompanied by wonderfully charismatic fifties black and white film of children passing their test on British roads and cycling all over the country in true stiff upper lip tradition. This was an entirely different era, one I grew up in.
In that era every single child in my street without exception owned a cycle and used it regularly with great enjoyment.
I would say that only about forty percent of these same families owned a car, and it would only be one vehicle per family.
How can you seriously attempt to go back to that kind of scenario in this day and age?
Keep your children safe and off the road: if they have bikes, use an offroad cycle track, that is if you can find one devoid of used needles and drug dealers.
I will be cycling with my kids to school this week... They are 7 & 9 years old and by the time they are ready for secondary school I expect them to travel there and back on their own when it's light enough.
What I won't be doing is teaching them all this new fangled cycling is king clap trap. They have already learned that falling off hurts (which is good) but I'll be concentrating on the laws of physics and that might is most definitely right. If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
The most important thing to teach them is that cars are big and fast and a child on a bicycle will always come off worse in the event of a collision so it's their responsibility to make sure they look after their own safety.
Growing up IS a dangerous occupation but kids still have to do it.
What I won't be doing is teaching them all this new fangled cycling is king clap trap. They have already learned that falling off hurts (which is good) but I'll be concentrating on the laws of physics and that might is most definitely right. If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
The most important thing to teach them is that cars are big and fast and a child on a bicycle will always come off worse in the event of a collision so it's their responsibility to make sure they look after their own safety.
Growing up IS a dangerous occupation but kids still have to do it.
BliarOut said:
I will be cycling with my kids to school this week...
That to me is the key part - if we can move *some* people from cars to bikes, some of the time, that will play a key part in increasing exercise levels, reducing (by a small amount) rush hour traffic (which may in turn reduce accidents around schools etc).
There's no way I would dream of sending a child out on a bike on their own, but if we can teach them to respect the road and use it wisely it will also help them no end when it comes to driving, with improved hazard perception, awareness, positioning and consideration of others.
The way forward, for me, is to have adults accompany children, even riding two-abreast is fine (and perfectly legal) where necessary. If its in a housing estate etc then following a cyclist for a minute or two at ~10mph is not going to make a huge difference to journey times, although hopefully children / adults will have the benefit of cycle routes.
I'm trying to decide whether cycling is a reasonable proposition for me now that it's light (I flatly refuse to cycle with lights, if it's dark enough to need them then I shall not be risking riding - but that's my decision, and I have no issue with others riding in the dark with adequate lighting / reflective clothing) - although it'll be about a 35 mile round trip, but shouldn't take an awful lot longer than driving. I think once or twice a week will be a nice change!
Edited by tigger1 on Monday 26th March 10:00
BliarOut said:
If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
Be better if you told them to get off and push on the pavement actually, cycling on the pavement is liable to cause anaccident, though the likely vistim is a pedestrian. Last week an elderly man was knocked over and killed by a pushbike riding on the pavement local to me, now I'm sure this wasnt deliberate and was a pure accident, however had the cyclist not beeen breakng the law this guy would still be alive
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
Be better if you told them to get off and push on the pavement actually, cycling on the pavement is liable to cause anaccident, though the likely vistim is a pedestrian. Last week an elderly man was knocked over and killed by a pushbike riding on the pavement local to me, now I'm sure this wasnt deliberate and was a pure accident, however had the cyclist not beeen breakng the law this guy would still be alive
What? So teach my kids how to walk whilst pushing a bike? Sorry, but that ain't gonna happen. If they can't learn how to avoid obstructions while travelling at 10-15 MPH then there's no way they'll be ready to progress to driving when the time comes.
Footpaths are perfect for cycling on IMO.
BliarOut said:
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
Be better if you told them to get off and push on the pavement actually, cycling on the pavement is liable to cause anaccident, though the likely vistim is a pedestrian. Last week an elderly man was knocked over and killed by a pushbike riding on the pavement local to me, now I'm sure this wasnt deliberate and was a pure accident, however had the cyclist not beeen breakng the law this guy would still be alive
What? So teach my kids how to walk whilst pushing a bike? Sorry, but that ain't gonna happen. If they can't learn how to avoid obstructions while travelling at 10-15 MPH then there's no way they'll be ready to progress to driving when the time comes.
Footpaths are perfect for cycling on IMO.
No they are not they are designed for pedestriasns thats why cycling on them is illegal
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
Be better if you told them to get off and push on the pavement actually, cycling on the pavement is liable to cause anaccident, though the likely vistim is a pedestrian. Last week an elderly man was knocked over and killed by a pushbike riding on the pavement local to me, now I'm sure this wasnt deliberate and was a pure accident, however had the cyclist not beeen breakng the law this guy would still be alive
What? So teach my kids how to walk whilst pushing a bike? Sorry, but that ain't gonna happen. If they can't learn how to avoid obstructions while travelling at 10-15 MPH then there's no way they'll be ready to progress to driving when the time comes.
Footpaths are perfect for cycling on IMO.
No they are not they are designed for pedestriasns thats why cycling on them is illegal
As I said in my first post, never let the law get in the way of safety. Footpaths are more suitable (and in better repair now) than roads in a lot of cases. I will teach my kids how to assess the safest route from A to B and to use it. If it happens to be the footpath then so be it.
There may be some footpaths that are OK for cycling but riding on the footpath requires care in situations that don’t arise on the road, such as passing gateways and giving way to pedestrians who may not be expecting cycles. If you’re actually trying to get somewhere then the road is obviously a better route, but you need to be assertive to be safe when you’re on the road. Parked cars are a constant problem when you have to pull out in front of drivers that don’t want to let you out.
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
freedman said:
BliarOut said:
If in doubt, cycle on the pavement as the law is less important than staying alive. My kids will learn the rules of the road but more importantly I'll teach them discretion in using them and when the legal method is less safe.
Be better if you told them to get off and push on the pavement actually, cycling on the pavement is liable to cause anaccident, though the likely vistim is a pedestrian. Last week an elderly man was knocked over and killed by a pushbike riding on the pavement local to me, now I'm sure this wasnt deliberate and was a pure accident, however had the cyclist not beeen breakng the law this guy would still be alive
What? So teach my kids how to walk whilst pushing a bike? Sorry, but that ain't gonna happen. If they can't learn how to avoid obstructions while travelling at 10-15 MPH then there's no way they'll be ready to progress to driving when the time comes.
Footpaths are perfect for cycling on IMO.
No they are not they are designed for pedestriasns thats why cycling on them is illegal
Personal opinion follows not the legality.
The problem is that vehicles and cycles can happily mix on the roads, and pedestrians and cycles can happily mix on the pavements when all participants behave themselves and with consideration for others.
But when you have one or more elements, drivers/cyclists/pedestrians who don't give a stuff about themselves or others is when the problem arises.
Clearly roads are for cars*, pavements are for pedestrians*. Cycles used responsibly and with consideration can be used on either. Equally pedestrians can walk on and across roads, given similar behaviour. Cars can cross pavements likewise.
* Before the pro-cycling, pro-horse riding, reclaim the streets militants start banging on that statement was for illustrative purposes in connection with the thread topic.
Edited by Flat in Fifth on Monday 26th March 10:57
tigger1 said:
There's no way I would dream of sending a child out on a bike on their own, but if we can teach them to respect the road and use it wisely it will also help them no end when it comes to driving, with improved hazard perception, awareness, positioning and consideration of others.
I hope i never become as afraid of the world as alot of the folk on here are
thinfourth said:
tigger1 said:
There's no way I would dream of sending a child out on a bike on their own, but if we can teach them to respect the road and use it wisely it will also help them no end when it comes to driving, with improved hazard perception, awareness, positioning and consideration of others.
I hope i never become as afraid of the world as alot of the folk on here are
What do you mean? Are you suggesting I'm paranoid?
If so, then yes - if it were my (future) children, I wouldn't want them cycling unaccompanied, certainly not at primary age, but I wouldn't really want them to be walking unaccompanied either really, there are risks that we can mitigate, and ones we can't....unfortunately, and I'd rather be on the safe side with kids.
I've only (fortunately) seen one accident involving a child / car interraction and that was a young girl (about 9) who weaved in front of a van (riding on the road) - when looking over her shoulder to turn right. Was a busy road, 1.5 lanes either way (wide single lanes, IYSWIM). This is certainly an accident that with either an adult riding behind / alongside farther from the kerb; or a more "proficient" child-cyclist.
Thankfully she shook herself like a shocked animal and wanted to run straight home, but very very disturbing at the time.
<hysteria>Won't somebody think of the children</hysteria>
I did a cycling proficiency test when I was at primary school, and used to ride a bike to and from secondary school. It took about 15/20 mins, and my route wasn't exactly quiet either. I have been threatened with physical violence when riding on the road, so rode on the pavement, until I was threatened again (both times were by "adults", who grabbed hold of me and were on the verge of hitting me). After this I walked, which took an hour or so. I don't think that it is generally a good idea to let kids ride bikes on their own for a while, once they have shown competence then perhaps issued with something that... hang on, that would be a license 
jith said:
Lots of stuff about how terribly dangerous the world is, and how it was so much better back in the day
You realise it's this very attitude that is sending our society to hell in a handbasket?
By attempting to remove all danger, you destroy risk perception and people act in a more dangerous manner as a result, the more you try to protect people the more dangerously they act, a self fulfilling prophecy.
Cycling on the road is not a particularly dangerous activity, those who claim so have either never done it or are incapable. Of course those who are incapable percive the activity as dangerous, so don't do it and therefore we don't see thousands of cyclists mown down every week
jith said:
I watched with growing alarm on the early morning news the innocent, smiling faces of a group of children attempting to master the art of cycling on a public road.
This apparently is the government's latest attempt to encourage children onto the roads and cut down car usage. Oh yes, and it will cut down on obesity!
Are they serious??
I am past the stage of having children; mine thankfully are all grown, but my sympathies go to all parents of young children in this country today. I am interested to know whether or not any of you would let your child out onto a public road on a cycle.
I think it is utter madness; can you imagine a more vulnerable target in today's traffic?
Now you could argue that the way forward to get children out of cars as they grow to be adults, is to turn them into keen cyclists. The problem is of course that they have to survive the process to adulthood, and that includes braving the British weather through the seasons.
The programme was accompanied by wonderfully charismatic fifties black and white film of children passing their test on British roads and cycling all over the country in true stiff upper lip tradition. This was an entirely different era, one I grew up in.
In that era every single child in my street without exception owned a cycle and used it regularly with great enjoyment.
I would say that only about forty percent of these same families owned a car, and it would only be one vehicle per family.
How can you seriously attempt to go back to that kind of scenario in this day and age?
Keep your children safe and off the road: if they have bikes, use an offroad cycle track, that is if you can find one devoid of used needles and drug dealers.
This apparently is the government's latest attempt to encourage children onto the roads and cut down car usage. Oh yes, and it will cut down on obesity!
Are they serious??
I am past the stage of having children; mine thankfully are all grown, but my sympathies go to all parents of young children in this country today. I am interested to know whether or not any of you would let your child out onto a public road on a cycle.
I think it is utter madness; can you imagine a more vulnerable target in today's traffic?
Now you could argue that the way forward to get children out of cars as they grow to be adults, is to turn them into keen cyclists. The problem is of course that they have to survive the process to adulthood, and that includes braving the British weather through the seasons.
The programme was accompanied by wonderfully charismatic fifties black and white film of children passing their test on British roads and cycling all over the country in true stiff upper lip tradition. This was an entirely different era, one I grew up in.
In that era every single child in my street without exception owned a cycle and used it regularly with great enjoyment.
I would say that only about forty percent of these same families owned a car, and it would only be one vehicle per family.
How can you seriously attempt to go back to that kind of scenario in this day and age?
Keep your children safe and off the road: if they have bikes, use an offroad cycle track, that is if you can find one devoid of used needles and drug dealers.
I'm really amazed by this. Are you serious?
British children are said to be the unhealthiest in Europe, partly because they go everywhere by car.
Get a grip man, the roads were far more dangerous in the past.
I saw this on the news and what i saw in the short section that they appeared to be teaching how to ride properly. Something i doubt many folk on here would not be able to do. Especially those that are convinced that they are the only person in the entire UK who is not a drug dealing axe murdering pedophile.
They were teaching that not to hide in the gutter where cars ignore a cyclist but to ride further out which forces following cars to either follow you or to pull right out to over take you. If you feel brave enough to try riding properly then you will see it is alot safer. Also kids who have yet to have their common sense removed will see that very busy roads are dangerous and will avoid them. I don't have kids but if i did then i would hope they are smart enough to realise that dual carriageway dangerous local roads around estate safe. The neighbours kids are out on their bikes all the time and have not been squished. Though they might come a cropper if they follow my example and use the speed bumps to get some air
They were teaching that not to hide in the gutter where cars ignore a cyclist but to ride further out which forces following cars to either follow you or to pull right out to over take you. If you feel brave enough to try riding properly then you will see it is alot safer. Also kids who have yet to have their common sense removed will see that very busy roads are dangerous and will avoid them. I don't have kids but if i did then i would hope they are smart enough to realise that dual carriageway dangerous local roads around estate safe. The neighbours kids are out on their bikes all the time and have not been squished. Though they might come a cropper if they follow my example and use the speed bumps to get some air
has more to do with kids today missing out on healthy games like "kissy tiggy tag" 
(It was a game back home.. und you thought the Swiss are so prissy 
)
But skipping.. hopscotch. far too dangerous
Liekwise riding a bicycle.
But Bikeability does teach how to use the roads properly ... Correct positioning, COAST development...
How to understand a bike und how it works.. und mend punctures etc
Riding on pavement? I think they are allowed if under 16 und policemen are supposed to use discretion if rider uses footpath when road condition dictate a wheely walk or ultra slow ride on pavement ist safer option.
But again.. they would know the rules if they did the course und had lessons per Bike Right/Ride Right .. whatever these courses are called
(It was a game back home.. und you thought the Swiss are so prissy ) But skipping.. hopscotch. far too dangerous
Liekwise riding a bicycle.
But Bikeability does teach how to use the roads properly ..
. Correct positioning, COAST development... How to understand a bike und how it works.. und mend punctures etc
Riding on pavement? I think they are allowed if under 16 und policemen are supposed to use discretion if rider uses footpath when road condition dictate a wheely walk or ultra slow ride on pavement ist safer option.
But again.. they would know the rules if they did the course
und had lessons per Bike Right/Ride Right .. whatever these courses are called cabinet enforcer said:
jith said:
Lots of stuff about how terribly dangerous the world is, and how it was so much better back in the day
You realise it's this very attitude that is sending our society to hell in a handbasket?
By attempting to remove all danger, you destroy risk perception and people act in a more dangerous manner as a result, the more you try to protect people the more dangerously they act, a self fulfilling prophecy.
Cycling on the road is not a particularly dangerous activity, those who claim so have either never done it or are incapable. Of course those who are incapable percive the activity as dangerous, so don't do it and therefore we don't see thousands of cyclists mown down every week
Absolute total nonsense!!!
I used to train with a lad who was an ex SAS PTI and a former Mr.Scotland four years running. We did hundreds if not thousands of miles of road work on bikes, seriously quick racers.
I also did, and still do climb mountains, not the namby pamby hills you find in Yorkshire or the Lakes, but the hard, high stuff in Glencoe.
Don't insult me by attempting to infer that I am some sort of soft touch that wrapped my children in cotton wool and have no concept of risk, because you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
ALL my children from a tender age climbed the same mountains; but you see the difference between mountains and the risk they present is that YOU have almost total control over that same risk, there is no chance whatever of the mountain lunging at you or swerving in front of you or blindly mowing you down because it is either stupid, blind drunk, very badly trained, or just simply doesn't give a shit!
It is an inanimate object unlike a driver, many of whom are dangerous to the point of lunacy.
Included in many of the other controlled risks I have participated in were driving Quattro rally cars and working on the police traffic cars.
I notice so far that no BiB have commented on this; might I suggest it is because, like me, they have seen only too often the result of what happens to a child when they are run down on a cycle.
The risks of this now are FAR greater than they ever were.
There are almost NO traffic police or visible detterents to stop the lunatics.
The standard of driving is decaying by the DAY.
Just look at a child on a busy road on a cycle in this day and age and think about it.
The risk is colossal, not controllable or moderate or reasonable, but too high to be acceptable.
The comments about cycling in other countries are beyond comment, there is utterly no comparison between road engineering and traffic styles in these countries and here, the risk is totally different.
Edited by jith on Monday 26th March 23:00
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