HELP - Speeding Conundrum!
Discussion
OK
So 12 Jan 07 I am flashed by a camera exceeding the speed limit.
97 Days later I recieve notification of a fixed penalty and fine in relation to this offence.
I am aware that the authorities are supposed to make me aware of the offence within 14 days, so I contacted the authorities to this end forwarding the source of this nugget of information.
The authorities respond stating that they had attempted to conatct me within 14 days but the letter was returned undelvered by royal mail because apparently their records did not list my house number. Sure enough upon checking my V5 the house number is ommitted.
HOWEVER, I have two other cars in my name with the correct address so it would not be difficult to identify the house number.
So what do I do, continue to contest it? OR give up and swallow my punishment?
Thanks
DB
So 12 Jan 07 I am flashed by a camera exceeding the speed limit.
97 Days later I recieve notification of a fixed penalty and fine in relation to this offence.
I am aware that the authorities are supposed to make me aware of the offence within 14 days, so I contacted the authorities to this end forwarding the source of this nugget of information.
The authorities respond stating that they had attempted to conatct me within 14 days but the letter was returned undelvered by royal mail because apparently their records did not list my house number. Sure enough upon checking my V5 the house number is ommitted.
HOWEVER, I have two other cars in my name with the correct address so it would not be difficult to identify the house number.
So what do I do, continue to contest it? OR give up and swallow my punishment?
Thanks
DB
richardthestag said:
Sorry but if you done the crime pay the fine!
Then correct the address on your registration doc and then you might stand a chance of beating the system next time you are caught at 2.7898765mph above the speed limit.
Then correct the address on your registration doc and then you might stand a chance of beating the system next time you are caught at 2.7898765mph above the speed limit.
Plus or minus 1mph?
What's been stated is correct though, they "contacted" RK as per the V5 - it is not their fault that the address held by the DVLA is incorrect.
It's "Pay a £60 fine or take a big chance" time.
Thanks for everyones comments please see the letter I sent in repsonse, lets wait and see.
Dear XXXX
In response to your letter dated 27th March 2007 concerning the exceptionally late fixed penalty notification and fine as eventually issued by your office on the 9th of March 2007.
I am afraid I do not accept your explanation as to why your office failed to notify me of the alleged speeding offence within the requisite 14 day period. It is a requirement of your office to provide the notification by a means which are “reasonably expected” to arrive within the said 14 day period (give or take a day for postage).
In the first instance sending out a letter without a house name or number does not satisfy this requirement. No reasonable person would “expect” a letter to reach its correct destination when it omits to include the house name and number, particularly in such a densely populated area.
Furthermore, within the DVLA database you will note that I have 2 other vehicles registered with the correct house number which could be identified very easily by a search against my name and postcode. Therefore, your office had at its disposal the means to fully comply with the 14 day notification period, but instead it has failed in its duty to give notice by reasonable means. As to how my house number could be omitted from the DVLA database, one can only speculate, but the ability to notify me by means which would have a “reasonable expectation” of reaching me, within the stipulated 14 day period, were nonetheless available to you.
I further put it to you that your eventual notification, received 97 days after the alleged incident, is well outside the doctrine of reasonable notice as practiced by authorities in these and similar circumstances.
I appreciate but under the circumstances cannot accept your explanation. I hope we can resolve this matter soon and I welcome your response.
Dear XXXX
In response to your letter dated 27th March 2007 concerning the exceptionally late fixed penalty notification and fine as eventually issued by your office on the 9th of March 2007.
I am afraid I do not accept your explanation as to why your office failed to notify me of the alleged speeding offence within the requisite 14 day period. It is a requirement of your office to provide the notification by a means which are “reasonably expected” to arrive within the said 14 day period (give or take a day for postage).
In the first instance sending out a letter without a house name or number does not satisfy this requirement. No reasonable person would “expect” a letter to reach its correct destination when it omits to include the house name and number, particularly in such a densely populated area.
Furthermore, within the DVLA database you will note that I have 2 other vehicles registered with the correct house number which could be identified very easily by a search against my name and postcode. Therefore, your office had at its disposal the means to fully comply with the 14 day notification period, but instead it has failed in its duty to give notice by reasonable means. As to how my house number could be omitted from the DVLA database, one can only speculate, but the ability to notify me by means which would have a “reasonable expectation” of reaching me, within the stipulated 14 day period, were nonetheless available to you.
I further put it to you that your eventual notification, received 97 days after the alleged incident, is well outside the doctrine of reasonable notice as practiced by authorities in these and similar circumstances.
I appreciate but under the circumstances cannot accept your explanation. I hope we can resolve this matter soon and I welcome your response.
I'm afraid as well worded as that is old chap.. you just may have committed the offence of failing to notify driver. You would have been better going down the route of sorry its been so long not sure who was driving can you give me a copy of the photo etc.
As stated they have sent to the reg keeper as per address from DVLA, I'm supprised the post office didn't tie in the name or the address (as the had the road and post code). They have complied with their bit in law. Any error on address may be down to you or the DVLA. They obviously have checked and eventually dug your address out but they didn't have to do that in the first place. They just have to send it to the keeper as per the V5.
As stated they have sent to the reg keeper as per address from DVLA, I'm supprised the post office didn't tie in the name or the address (as the had the road and post code). They have complied with their bit in law. Any error on address may be down to you or the DVLA. They obviously have checked and eventually dug your address out but they didn't have to do that in the first place. They just have to send it to the keeper as per the V5.
The Bowels of SCP
Whereever.
Date as read
Dear Mr Danielsonson
Thank you for your letter dated (whenever) about the lateness of NOIP in relation to a speeding offence detected by camera involving motor car?????? at..on at. of which it appears you are the Registered Owner.
Firstly, may I point out irrespective of the number of your cars registered in your name with DVLA it is not our or their responsiblility under the circumstances to carry out an extensive search to establish your true address which it appears was never notified to DVLA.
In good faith following the offence we made enquiry of DVLA to establish the details of the Registered Keeper and from their records supplied with an address from which it has proved impossible to serve the NOIP. It would appear that you have committed an offence in falsely certifying the declaration on the change of ownership V5 as being correct which it was not in that the FULL address was not quoted. See Reg 22 (2)(b) (iv) Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regs 2002.
We shall therefore, in any further proceedings, rely on the preceedent
Clarke v Mould [1945]which held that being supplied with wrong information by the Motoring Authority then reasonable diligence had been shown and non receipt of NOIP was no bar to conviction.
Unlike Mrs Macca you do not have a leg to stand on therefore I look forward to receiving your cheque for £60 and your Driving Licence which will be returned in due course ensdorsed with three penalty points.
Yours faithfully,
Lynne C. DOYLE
Smooth Operator.
dvd (t.i.c.)
...which reminds me of the saga of the new lorry driver tasked with delivering a load of timber to London from the North.
On reaching Grantham asked a chap if this was London to be told no further down south.
Same when he reached Peterborough and got the same reply ...further south down the A.1.
Likewise at every large conurbation.
Eventually,about 4am in the morning is driving across Waterloo Bridge and stopped to ask a pedestrian if this was London.
"yes might" was the reply.
"Good " said the driver, "where do you want me to drop this wood?"
Whereever.
Date as read
Dear Mr Danielsonson
Thank you for your letter dated (whenever) about the lateness of NOIP in relation to a speeding offence detected by camera involving motor car?????? at..on at. of which it appears you are the Registered Owner.
Firstly, may I point out irrespective of the number of your cars registered in your name with DVLA it is not our or their responsiblility under the circumstances to carry out an extensive search to establish your true address which it appears was never notified to DVLA.
In good faith following the offence we made enquiry of DVLA to establish the details of the Registered Keeper and from their records supplied with an address from which it has proved impossible to serve the NOIP. It would appear that you have committed an offence in falsely certifying the declaration on the change of ownership V5 as being correct which it was not in that the FULL address was not quoted. See Reg 22 (2)(b) (iv) Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing) Regs 2002.
We shall therefore, in any further proceedings, rely on the preceedent
Clarke v Mould [1945]which held that being supplied with wrong information by the Motoring Authority then reasonable diligence had been shown and non receipt of NOIP was no bar to conviction.
Unlike Mrs Macca you do not have a leg to stand on therefore I look forward to receiving your cheque for £60 and your Driving Licence which will be returned in due course ensdorsed with three penalty points.
Yours faithfully,
Lynne C. DOYLE
Smooth Operator.
dvd (t.i.c.)
...which reminds me of the saga of the new lorry driver tasked with delivering a load of timber to London from the North.
On reaching Grantham asked a chap if this was London to be told no further down south.
Same when he reached Peterborough and got the same reply ...further south down the A.1.
Likewise at every large conurbation.
Eventually,about 4am in the morning is driving across Waterloo Bridge and stopped to ask a pedestrian if this was London.
"yes might" was the reply.
"Good " said the driver, "where do you want me to drop this wood?"
Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Thursday 29th March 14:46
You know DVD that story reminds me of when Bro was being visited mother.
Upon request he wrote out a route for her to get home which consisted of leaving his house nipping onto the M1(S) for a couple of junctions and then off away to the wild and woolly depths.
He put the route down as a list of diagrams of the junctions, as one does, and the exit from the M1 was shown as a roundabout titled M1 J37 Barnsley or whatever.
Of course she sets off down the M1 waiting to encounter a roundabout.........
Good job she needed a tiddle somewhere around Newport Pagnell otherwise probably still be wandering around Stoke Newington!
Upon request he wrote out a route for her to get home which consisted of leaving his house nipping onto the M1(S) for a couple of junctions and then off away to the wild and woolly depths.
He put the route down as a list of diagrams of the junctions, as one does, and the exit from the M1 was shown as a roundabout titled M1 J37 Barnsley or whatever.
Of course she sets off down the M1 waiting to encounter a roundabout.........
Good job she needed a tiddle somewhere around Newport Pagnell otherwise probably still be wandering around Stoke Newington!
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