Hypothetical speeding/overtake question
Discussion
This is something I was thinking about the other day, its never happened to me, and I don't expect it ever will, but anyway...
Say your on a road somewhere with an NSL limit. Mr Sunday Driver is doing 40 so you manouvre to overtake. As you are along side the car in the oncoming lane a car appears out of nowhere and you have to react.
What would you do?
I've had a think and I really wouldn't want to be in that situation as I find it very difficult to imagine what I would do.
For instance, say you couldn't move into the left without braking or accelerating, but you were uncertain as which to do, what would be your choice?
Would you drive off the road to avoid a collision?
Brake and try and get on the right side of the road?
Accelerate and try and get on the right side of the road?
I think I would obviously brake as to reduce the possible impacts speeds, but maybe accelerating would be a wise choice?
I suppose the conditions are not exact so would be hard to determine.
Say your on a road somewhere with an NSL limit. Mr Sunday Driver is doing 40 so you manouvre to overtake. As you are along side the car in the oncoming lane a car appears out of nowhere and you have to react.
What would you do?
I've had a think and I really wouldn't want to be in that situation as I find it very difficult to imagine what I would do.
For instance, say you couldn't move into the left without braking or accelerating, but you were uncertain as which to do, what would be your choice?
Would you drive off the road to avoid a collision?
Brake and try and get on the right side of the road?
Accelerate and try and get on the right side of the road?
I think I would obviously brake as to reduce the possible impacts speeds, but maybe accelerating would be a wise choice?
I suppose the conditions are not exact so would be hard to determine.
Parrot of Doom said:
Cars don't tend to suddenly appear from nowhere. The trick is to avoid that situation altogether by being certain theres nothing coming, and by not overtaking near junctions.
I know mate, I wasn't asking for advice, its completely hypothetical, I was just curious as to what people would do. 
Depends on the car your driving, distance to the oncoming car, estimated speed of that car, road surface, how far into the overtake manoeuvre you are, e.t.c.
If I had just started, so I had only just pulled out, or the front of my car was just at the c pillar of the car I was overtaking, I would brake, beyond that I would continue to overtake if I thought I could make it, because you don't know how the driver of the car you were trying to pass will react, they might anticipate a problem and brake to allow you to move left, if you both brake then the danger doesn't go away.
If I can't see a long way up the road, I generally overtake at nearly full throttle anyway, minimizing time on the wrong side of the road, something Saab always advertised as a safety aspect for their turbo charged cars, quick 50-70 mph times
If there was a speed camera on the road, the whole equation becomes more complex.
If I had just started, so I had only just pulled out, or the front of my car was just at the c pillar of the car I was overtaking, I would brake, beyond that I would continue to overtake if I thought I could make it, because you don't know how the driver of the car you were trying to pass will react, they might anticipate a problem and brake to allow you to move left, if you both brake then the danger doesn't go away.
If I can't see a long way up the road, I generally overtake at nearly full throttle anyway, minimizing time on the wrong side of the road, something Saab always advertised as a safety aspect for their turbo charged cars, quick 50-70 mph times
If there was a speed camera on the road, the whole equation becomes more complex.
Polarbert said:
Parrot of Doom said:
Cars don't tend to suddenly appear from nowhere. The trick is to avoid that situation altogether by being certain theres nothing coming, and by not overtaking near junctions.
I know mate, I wasn't asking for advice, its completely hypothetical, I was just curious as to what people would do. 
. Alternatively, I would consider that I had stumbled onto the set of a Harry Potter film - Streaky It happened to me many years ago.
I approached an overtake in a fairly sensible manner on a dead straight road with good visibility and no junctions. There was a car coming towards me, but far enough away so that I could make it without any concern. So I started the overtake, and was alongside the car I was overtaking when....
...the car coming the other way got overtaken by another at a fair rate of knots, such that I thought I may not be able to compelte my overtake. So I hit the brakes and slotted back in to way where I came from, behind the car I was overtaking. It was all fairly instinctive and with hindsight I may have been able to complete the overtake but I couldn't be sure.
The car coming the other (the overtaker) had the gall to flash and hoot at me as I went by, but I'm not quite sure what I did wrong, except for failing to anticipate that.
What I did get from that was that banana style overtakes are a bad idea no matter how much space and time you think you have. If the other driver had seen me earlier, he may not have started his overtake.
I approached an overtake in a fairly sensible manner on a dead straight road with good visibility and no junctions. There was a car coming towards me, but far enough away so that I could make it without any concern. So I started the overtake, and was alongside the car I was overtaking when....
...the car coming the other way got overtaken by another at a fair rate of knots, such that I thought I may not be able to compelte my overtake. So I hit the brakes and slotted back in to way where I came from, behind the car I was overtaking. It was all fairly instinctive and with hindsight I may have been able to complete the overtake but I couldn't be sure.
The car coming the other (the overtaker) had the gall to flash and hoot at me as I went by, but I'm not quite sure what I did wrong, except for failing to anticipate that.
What I did get from that was that banana style overtakes are a bad idea no matter how much space and time you think you have. If the other driver had seen me earlier, he may not have started his overtake.
Parrot of Doom said:
Cars don't tend to suddenly appear from nowhere. The trick is to avoid that situation altogether by being certain theres nothing coming, and by not overtaking near junctions.
My first thought too.
Having said that I almost always speed when going past someone because I'd rather be told I was such a naughty boy than be dead or kill someone else because I took too long to get past. The 'you must not speed under any circumstances' highway code entries are just complete rubbish in my view - why make overtaking Mr Slow more dangerous than it needs to be?
A few years ago, I was driving a 1.3 Golf from Newcastle to Oxford with my girlfriend sat next to me. I was stuck behind a lorry, at about one in the morning, after a diversion took us off the M1 and onto A roads. Looking for the overtake, I saw a long straight road, tailights a mile or so ahead and no headlights. I dropped into 3rd, floored it, and was exactly midway, alongside the lorry, at about 55mph, when two headlights appeared 2-3 lorry lengths in front of me. With nowhere to accelerate into and no time to brake, I swerved to the right, off the road and ended up in a ditch, luckily hitting no trees/fenceposts/etc on the way. The lorry and a couple of cars stopped, all sympathetic and helped push the car out of the ditch and back onto the road. I had never driven this road, and didn't know about the hidden dip that was just ahead. So a very valuable lesson learned about night-time overtakes. I remember thinking sometime afterwards, that if the car had had better acceleration, I may not have had the time to react and swerve out of the way as I would have seen the oncoming car too late.
So my answer to the original question is that you'll (probably) do whatever your instincts tell you to do, based on the circumstances you find yourself in. If you keep your handling skills reasonably sharp, you'll also stand a bit better chance.
So my answer to the original question is that you'll (probably) do whatever your instincts tell you to do, based on the circumstances you find yourself in. If you keep your handling skills reasonably sharp, you'll also stand a bit better chance.
In most scenarios I would think I'd slam all on and tuck back in.
I once was in a similar situation, but I was the overtakee. Bloke overtaking didn't know it was a hidden dip, oncoming car appeared when he had committed and was just a half car length in front of me. I slammed all on to let him get back in, but so did he. We spent what felt like minutes side by side, before I decided to drop a couple of gears and floor it to let him in behind me. Gave me a right scare, and him.
What would you do in that scenario?
I once was in a similar situation, but I was the overtakee. Bloke overtaking didn't know it was a hidden dip, oncoming car appeared when he had committed and was just a half car length in front of me. I slammed all on to let him get back in, but so did he. We spent what felt like minutes side by side, before I decided to drop a couple of gears and floor it to let him in behind me. Gave me a right scare, and him.
What would you do in that scenario?
The time required to decelerate to get back in as such, especially if already level is a LONG time, if your already making headway the quickest way to reduce TED would be to keep going but get in asap. Assuming its not a lorry with a trailer type thing.
Also the roads are often wide enough for 3 to pass by "if need be" which is always an option. The other would be to take drastic action such as move left etc, not very PC but in the light of circumstance better than a head on any day.
However what drivers actually do is almost always disastrous, if the overtake was poorly planned no doubt a get out clause was never considered.
I've had one recent'ish incident, where I was passing 3 cars, with a largish speed difference between myself & the others. No2 decided to pull out on me without indicating, no way could I have missed him by braking, I went for the grass edge & kept it nailed. It was close, too close in fact & made me think what I did wrong. It was'nt a suprise as such as I always expect numpties to such stuff but by heck did I have brown trousers!!!
Also the roads are often wide enough for 3 to pass by "if need be" which is always an option. The other would be to take drastic action such as move left etc, not very PC but in the light of circumstance better than a head on any day.
However what drivers actually do is almost always disastrous, if the overtake was poorly planned no doubt a get out clause was never considered.
I've had one recent'ish incident, where I was passing 3 cars, with a largish speed difference between myself & the others. No2 decided to pull out on me without indicating, no way could I have missed him by braking, I went for the grass edge & kept it nailed. It was close, too close in fact & made me think what I did wrong. It was'nt a suprise as such as I always expect numpties to such stuff but by heck did I have brown trousers!!!
Strawman said:
... I would continue to overtake if I thought I could make it, because you don't know how the driver of the car you were trying to pass will react, they might anticipate a problem and brake to allow you to move left, if you both brake then the danger doesn't go away.
Yeah, this is nasty. The next thing that happens is that both you and the overtakee see the problem and start accelerating again and the problem STILL doesn't go away.
It's the overtakee that 'controls' such problems, and interestingly, since the overtakee is travelling more slowly, and brakes change speed faster than engines, the fastest escape from the crisis is usually the overtakee braking.
Accordingly when I'm being overtaken I like to try and make it clear that I'm giving way to the overtaker. Depending on the situation I might give a chink left, an indicator flash, a brake light flash or a definite lift-off. If his overtake goes pear-shaped I'll slam on and hope that he's taken the hint that I have given priority.
I figure I'm going to slam on anyway because I don't want to be hammering into the fallout of his accident, so I might as well give some indication of my 'disaster strategy' when and if possible.
Edited by safespeed on Friday 30th March 08:29
Middle Laner said:
A few years ago, I was driving a 1.3 Golf from Newcastle to Oxford with my girlfriend sat next to me. I was stuck behind a lorry, at about one in the morning, after a diversion took us off the M1 and onto A roads. Looking for the overtake, I saw a long straight road, tailights a mile or so ahead and no headlights. I dropped into 3rd, floored it, and was exactly midway, alongside the lorry, at about 55mph, when two headlights appeared 2-3 lorry lengths in front of me. With nowhere to accelerate into and no time to brake, I swerved to the right, off the road and ended up in a ditch, luckily hitting no trees/fenceposts/etc on the way. The lorry and a couple of cars stopped, all sympathetic and helped push the car out of the ditch and back onto the road. I had never driven this road, and didn't know about the hidden dip that was just ahead. So a very valuable lesson learned about night-time overtakes. [...]
That's exactly the sort of situation that double white lines are for.
There can't be many places left where one could make that sort of mistake without crossing double-whites.
I would definitely write to the local authority if it happened to me (assuming I survived my mistake, that is).
Brake and tuck back in is my favoured option. Generally don't have the option of accelerating as I always go for mininium TED as the only responsibility I have is to my own safety. It's crazy that Bib will prosecute in these circumstances but just goes to show how far the world has come from Dixon of Dock Green.
Ultimately, the instict would be to serve to avoid the head on regardless of what was there. It's something people should be aware of in every day driving. If the oncoming vechicle is overtaking a row of parked cars and someone runs out or opens the door they will instively serve into your lane and have a head on. You therefore try to adjust your speed such that you are never three abreast.
Ultimately, the instict would be to serve to avoid the head on regardless of what was there. It's something people should be aware of in every day driving. If the oncoming vechicle is overtaking a row of parked cars and someone runs out or opens the door they will instively serve into your lane and have a head on. You therefore try to adjust your speed such that you are never three abreast.
Assume a car coming towards you, the car moves to the same side of the road as you, assume you move opposite, assume he does too, this happend to me in Holland many years ago ( 1983 actually)
I was going to Brussels early morning with girlfriend and work mate in a golf diesel, we were doing about 120KPH nice striaght road about a mile long.
I could see a lefthand bend in the distance, a car came round the corner towards me and it veered over the white line to my side of the road, first thought hmm!!! he"s knocking on then he veers to the correct side of the road, and then to the middle of the road, i start to slow down fast, but by this time the guy is getting very near, and still fast approaching, i then realised that the guy was asleep, * thinks*, if he wakes up which way will he go? decide to drive of road look around and see long grass both sides of road which dips away both sides, query? any ditches along here, seeing as Holland is famous for ditches. Now getting very close, decide to straddle middle of road and avoid at earliesr possible moment that i can by estimating/guess which way he goes.
Impact imminent, the other car by now has drifted back to wrong side of road so i move opposite,
just before cars are pasing he wakes and reacts to recover to correct side of road, i go further left with violent manouver and twitch it back to the right, impact occurs with his front wing and my rear wheel arch.
I manage to control car and avoid sliding into deep ditch on the left, he careers off to my right and down steep incline into a field. I have hit a couple of small wooden distance posts, but otherwise no damage.
I leap out of car ready to rip the head the idiot and dash over to his car, he falls out of his car and is in total shock.
I calm down and start to get him calm and lucid, my mate who was in the back seat starts to wander about, commenting on the abundant wildlife on view.
Girlfriend comes over to me and asks if i have any tissues as she has pissed herself.
Guy in the other car now apologising profusely in English/Dutch. All at once hear the proverbial screech of tyres as local constabulary come to a halt in clouds of smoke as they arrive on scene, ( turns out that someone in a house overlooking the field had seen it all happen and put a call in).
The officers pile out of the car and dash over and as soon as they hear the English accent start to give me a load of heavy verbal abuse until the the driver involved gives them some verbal which shuts them up quick.
After about ten minutes of chat by him the cops explain that he has told them: It turns out he had just finished 12 hour nightshift in Belguim and going home for weekend, told them it was all his fault and that if i had not been where i was when he reacted, we would probably all be dead or injured.
Now what would you have done in that situation dear reader.
I was going to Brussels early morning with girlfriend and work mate in a golf diesel, we were doing about 120KPH nice striaght road about a mile long.
I could see a lefthand bend in the distance, a car came round the corner towards me and it veered over the white line to my side of the road, first thought hmm!!! he"s knocking on then he veers to the correct side of the road, and then to the middle of the road, i start to slow down fast, but by this time the guy is getting very near, and still fast approaching, i then realised that the guy was asleep, * thinks*, if he wakes up which way will he go? decide to drive of road look around and see long grass both sides of road which dips away both sides, query? any ditches along here, seeing as Holland is famous for ditches. Now getting very close, decide to straddle middle of road and avoid at earliesr possible moment that i can by estimating/guess which way he goes.
Impact imminent, the other car by now has drifted back to wrong side of road so i move opposite,
just before cars are pasing he wakes and reacts to recover to correct side of road, i go further left with violent manouver and twitch it back to the right, impact occurs with his front wing and my rear wheel arch.
I manage to control car and avoid sliding into deep ditch on the left, he careers off to my right and down steep incline into a field. I have hit a couple of small wooden distance posts, but otherwise no damage.
I leap out of car ready to rip the head the idiot and dash over to his car, he falls out of his car and is in total shock.
I calm down and start to get him calm and lucid, my mate who was in the back seat starts to wander about, commenting on the abundant wildlife on view.
Girlfriend comes over to me and asks if i have any tissues as she has pissed herself.
Guy in the other car now apologising profusely in English/Dutch. All at once hear the proverbial screech of tyres as local constabulary come to a halt in clouds of smoke as they arrive on scene, ( turns out that someone in a house overlooking the field had seen it all happen and put a call in).
The officers pile out of the car and dash over and as soon as they hear the English accent start to give me a load of heavy verbal abuse until the the driver involved gives them some verbal which shuts them up quick.
After about ten minutes of chat by him the cops explain that he has told them: It turns out he had just finished 12 hour nightshift in Belguim and going home for weekend, told them it was all his fault and that if i had not been where i was when he reacted, we would probably all be dead or injured.
Now what would you have done in that situation dear reader.
The correct answer is of course if it is a NSL then you travel at 59mph therefore below the speed limit. Providing the other car is also doing below the speed limit both cars will molecularly deconstruct and pass through one another with no harm done to either the car or its occupants.
I though you would know this as speed kills and the speed limits are set after years of research into this molecular effect. Thats why we haven't seen steve hawking for ages he is calculating speed limits
I though you would know this as speed kills and the speed limits are set after years of research into this molecular effect. Thats why we haven't seen steve hawking for ages he is calculating speed limits
thinfourth said:
The correct answer is of course if it is a NSL then you travel at 59mph therefore below the speed limit. Providing the other car is also doing below the speed limit both cars will molecularly deconstruct and pass through one another with no harm done to either the car or its occupants.
I though you would know this as speed kills and the speed limits are set after years of research into this molecular effect. Thats why we haven't seen steve hawking for ages he is calculating speed limits
I though you would know this as speed kills and the speed limits are set after years of research into this molecular effect. Thats why we haven't seen steve hawking for ages he is calculating speed limits
LOL!
FOr me, in the shitmobile, brake if not already alongside or with a decent speed differential (though I probably wouldn't bother in the first place). In the Noble, keep going and poo pants later.
I was nearly in that situation with someone on my side of the road a couple of weeks ago and I think the tractor he was overtaking and he both braked, leaving him nowhere to go. He was only about 18 and his face when he thought he might die...... Plenty enough room for three cars though luckily.
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