Lawyer or no lawyer
Discussion
So I am going to court in a few months after my little mistake.
Should I take a lawyer?
I am an Army Officer so not a scrote, but the trouble is that sometimes civvies get twitchy when we speak as we can come across as arrogant when in fact we are just used to public speaking. So the magistrates might come down on me harder...
So that makes me think a lawyer is necessary.
But on the other hand, some people have said that the Magistrates hate it when you try and hide behind a lwayer. I have some things I would like presented to reduce my ban (it is going to be a ban - 130mph on dual carriageway).
What are people's thoughts?
Also, how long can you delay a summons for realistically?
Thanks,
Q
Should I take a lawyer?
I am an Army Officer so not a scrote, but the trouble is that sometimes civvies get twitchy when we speak as we can come across as arrogant when in fact we are just used to public speaking. So the magistrates might come down on me harder...
So that makes me think a lawyer is necessary.
But on the other hand, some people have said that the Magistrates hate it when you try and hide behind a lwayer. I have some things I would like presented to reduce my ban (it is going to be a ban - 130mph on dual carriageway).
What are people's thoughts?
Also, how long can you delay a summons for realistically?
Thanks,
Q
IIRC you can be a no show in court 3 times after that there is a warrant sent out for you. so no show twice without come back i think. this could delay it for upto a year i suppose, probably varies on different courts though.
friends of mine had a court apperance, there were 3 of them, each of them took turns not to turn up. this lasted for about year and a half and in the end it ot thrown out. that was for driving around a car park with no insurance, never went on public roads though.
friends of mine had a court apperance, there were 3 of them, each of them took turns not to turn up. this lasted for about year and a half and in the end it ot thrown out. that was for driving around a car park with no insurance, never went on public roads though.
The appointment of a solicitor is your prerogative, I’m sure that fact you exercised it to appoint one would indicate good sense rather than anything else.
The Queen has, as the head of the UK, Commonwealth and the Army, endorsed by the Army Board commissioned you. The wording of a part of the commission goes something like this:
“To our trusty and well beloved Quickstop. We reposing Especial Trust and Confidence in your Loyalty, Courage and Good Conduct, do by these Presents, Constitute and Appoint you to be an Officer in our Army from…”
So my thoughts are that as you know you have committed this offence you should do the thing expected of your commission and admit it with mitigation. What you should not do is try to use your commission as a badge of Good Conduct knowing full well you have not maintained the conduct expected on this occasion, i.e. it is expected that as you are not a “scrote” don’t start behaving like one.
Perhaps as you are an officer you should either read your commission document if you have received it or borrow someone’s to know what is expected.
What are your thoughts?
The Queen has, as the head of the UK, Commonwealth and the Army, endorsed by the Army Board commissioned you. The wording of a part of the commission goes something like this:
“To our trusty and well beloved Quickstop. We reposing Especial Trust and Confidence in your Loyalty, Courage and Good Conduct, do by these Presents, Constitute and Appoint you to be an Officer in our Army from…”
So my thoughts are that as you know you have committed this offence you should do the thing expected of your commission and admit it with mitigation. What you should not do is try to use your commission as a badge of Good Conduct knowing full well you have not maintained the conduct expected on this occasion, i.e. it is expected that as you are not a “scrote” don’t start behaving like one.
Quickstop said:
“Also, how long can you delay a summons for realistically?”
Perhaps as you are an officer you should either read your commission document if you have received it or borrow someone’s to know what is expected.
What are your thoughts?
The Magistrates won't have the slightest interest in the wording of an Officer's commission.
I don't hold Solicitors in great esteem (through personal experience - I've been to court countless times, and I've only been questioned by a good solicitor about half a dozen times).
If you're pleading guilty, the best advice would be to do it at the earliest opportunity, as the bench are supposed to give you credit for an early guilty plea. Any delaying tactics will only bump up your sentence in the long run.
When you're given an opportunity to speak to the bench before they consider your sentence, just apologise to them, tell them it was a momentary lapse, that you've never done anything like it before (providing you've no similar previous convictions, of course!), and ask them very nicely if they'd keep your inevitable disqualification to a minimum, as your driving licence is very important for your work.
That's everything a Solicitor will do for you, and in my experience, it sounds much better coming from you personally, than from a third party, and you'll save yourself an additional bill too.
If you were pleading not guilty, then I'd advise you to see a Solicitor, but if you're admitting the offence, I don't see the point.
I don't hold Solicitors in great esteem (through personal experience - I've been to court countless times, and I've only been questioned by a good solicitor about half a dozen times).
If you're pleading guilty, the best advice would be to do it at the earliest opportunity, as the bench are supposed to give you credit for an early guilty plea. Any delaying tactics will only bump up your sentence in the long run.
When you're given an opportunity to speak to the bench before they consider your sentence, just apologise to them, tell them it was a momentary lapse, that you've never done anything like it before (providing you've no similar previous convictions, of course!), and ask them very nicely if they'd keep your inevitable disqualification to a minimum, as your driving licence is very important for your work.
That's everything a Solicitor will do for you, and in my experience, it sounds much better coming from you personally, than from a third party, and you'll save yourself an additional bill too.
If you were pleading not guilty, then I'd advise you to see a Solicitor, but if you're admitting the offence, I don't see the point.
shack55 said:
R_U_LOCAL said:
The Magistrates won't have the slightest interest in the wording of an Officer's commission.
Absolutely, what I was getting at though was the use of the "officer" theme then actually using a "Scrotes" tactic.
I've just re-read your post and realised that I'm thick.
*Feels better having "come out" as thick*
R_U_LOCAL said:
The Magistrates won't have the slightest interest in the wording of an Officer's commission.
I don't hold Solicitors in great esteem (through personal experience - I've been to court countless times, and I've only been questioned by a good solicitor about half a dozen times).
If you're pleading guilty, the best advice would be to do it at the earliest opportunity, as the bench are supposed to give you credit for an early guilty plea. Any delaying tactics will only bump up your sentence in the long run.
When you're given an opportunity to speak to the bench before they consider your sentence, just apologise to them, tell them it was a momentary lapse, that you've never done anything like it before (providing you've no similar previous convictions, of course!), and ask them very nicely if they'd keep your inevitable disqualification to a minimum, as your driving licence is very important for your work.
That's everything a Solicitor will do for you, and in my experience, it sounds much better coming from you personally, than from a third party, and you'll save yourself an additional bill too.
If you were pleading not guilty, then I'd advise you to see a Solicitor, but if you're admitting the offence, I don't see the point.
I don't hold Solicitors in great esteem (through personal experience - I've been to court countless times, and I've only been questioned by a good solicitor about half a dozen times).
If you're pleading guilty, the best advice would be to do it at the earliest opportunity, as the bench are supposed to give you credit for an early guilty plea. Any delaying tactics will only bump up your sentence in the long run.
When you're given an opportunity to speak to the bench before they consider your sentence, just apologise to them, tell them it was a momentary lapse, that you've never done anything like it before (providing you've no similar previous convictions, of course!), and ask them very nicely if they'd keep your inevitable disqualification to a minimum, as your driving licence is very important for your work.
That's everything a Solicitor will do for you, and in my experience, it sounds much better coming from you personally, than from a third party, and you'll save yourself an additional bill too.
If you were pleading not guilty, then I'd advise you to see a Solicitor, but if you're admitting the offence, I don't see the point.
Sorry... I've been waiting to say this for months....
Lines and lines and lines and lines and lines
(I hope I got that right)
b.t.w. I agree, if you can string a bit more than half a sentence together get in there and do it by your self.
I certainly don't intend to use anything to do with my commission - not sure what you are getting at.
I realise I have cocked up and am completely prepared to admit that here and in court so there is no issue there.
My question regarding the delaying action is because I have no date for the hearing yet, but am due to go away on Ops later this year.
Firstly I do not want to be accused of missing a hearing, so I need to be present. Secondly, if I do get a ban, then I would like to tie in the period that I am away with the ban so it affects me in the least way possible. So I would like to delay my hearing until a few days before I go!
As far as notifying the Adjt, not got the NIP through yet or anything so until I do I am keeping my fingers crossed. Once I have a firm date though, I will of course notify the CoC. Having spoken with Army Legal Services, looks like I will be giving the GOC a damn good listening to without coffee. Letter of censure is the most likely penalty.
So the plan as it stands is to delay the hearing if possible to as close to going on Ops as I can, and to represent myself with a letter from the CO saying whatever he can to minimise the sentence.
So my questions now are: Can you ask to delay a hearing? If so, how?
Secondly, can you write a plea of guilty to the magistrates negating the requirement to appear in court?
Thanks guys,
Q
I realise I have cocked up and am completely prepared to admit that here and in court so there is no issue there.
My question regarding the delaying action is because I have no date for the hearing yet, but am due to go away on Ops later this year.
Firstly I do not want to be accused of missing a hearing, so I need to be present. Secondly, if I do get a ban, then I would like to tie in the period that I am away with the ban so it affects me in the least way possible. So I would like to delay my hearing until a few days before I go!
As far as notifying the Adjt, not got the NIP through yet or anything so until I do I am keeping my fingers crossed. Once I have a firm date though, I will of course notify the CoC. Having spoken with Army Legal Services, looks like I will be giving the GOC a damn good listening to without coffee. Letter of censure is the most likely penalty.
So the plan as it stands is to delay the hearing if possible to as close to going on Ops as I can, and to represent myself with a letter from the CO saying whatever he can to minimise the sentence.
So my questions now are: Can you ask to delay a hearing? If so, how?
Secondly, can you write a plea of guilty to the magistrates negating the requirement to appear in court?
Thanks guys,
Q
If you're facing a disqualification then you'll have to appear in court personally. You can plead guilty to motoring offences which attract points by post, but you have to appear in person to accept a disqualification. Without sounding patronising, the ban takes effect immediately, so make sure you don't drive home from court afterwards.
If you'r looking at delaying things to fit in with an operational tour, then I'd suggest you get a letter from your C.O. to put before the court explaining why you need to appear on a specific date. If you make it clear that you'll be pleading guilty and the delay is for operational reasons only, then it shouldn't go against you.
If you'r looking at delaying things to fit in with an operational tour, then I'd suggest you get a letter from your C.O. to put before the court explaining why you need to appear on a specific date. If you make it clear that you'll be pleading guilty and the delay is for operational reasons only, then it shouldn't go against you.
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