What's the charge?
Discussion
Last night I went around a huge roundabout in the family diesel, turning to the third exit (right turn effectively) and got a bit of inside wheel spin in 3rd. I sort of kept it on, exercising the throttle pedal up and down trying to find a bit of traction but the wheelspin kept on and there might have been some smoke coming off the tyre and perhaps a bit of a black line. Totally under control the whole time of course. Coming to a standstill at the traffic light 200 yards on there was a smell of burning rubber.
A few seconds later just as the lights went green, john law came through lights / sirens going and slowed down in front of me. My first reaction was that he'd seen me negotiate the roundabout and wanted a chat.
Turns out he was just organising a rolling roadblock so he wasn't interested in me. Fair enough I thought, it wasn't that interesting anyway.
But made me wonder... What offence if any did I commit?
SM
A few seconds later just as the lights went green, john law came through lights / sirens going and slowed down in front of me. My first reaction was that he'd seen me negotiate the roundabout and wanted a chat.
Turns out he was just organising a rolling roadblock so he wasn't interested in me. Fair enough I thought, it wasn't that interesting anyway.
But made me wonder... What offence if any did I commit?
SM
That's really saddening VH because it reinforces the stereotype "I AM THE LAW!" attitude some people think the police have.
For the record, if you saw the activity outlined above, do you honestly and truthfully think that taking somebody's car away -- or indeed even stopping them at all -- would be worthwhile from a safety or any other point of view? I know you often like to joke about not going over 60 even if it'd make an overtake safer, but seriously this time, what do you think?
SM
For the record, if you saw the activity outlined above, do you honestly and truthfully think that taking somebody's car away -- or indeed even stopping them at all -- would be worthwhile from a safety or any other point of view? I know you often like to joke about not going over 60 even if it'd make an overtake safer, but seriously this time, what do you think?
SM
mg6b said:
Driver causing unnecessary noise.
I think it's necessary that when a tyre rubs on the road surface it makes some form of noise ranging from a gentle whine to a lurid howl/bark. Otherwise I reckon the manufacturers would have engineered it out.
Or have I missed something obvious?
SM
supermono said:
That's really saddening VH because it reinforces the stereotype "I AM THE LAW!" attitude some people think the police have.
It is the duty of the police to bring breaches of the law to the attention of those who breach it. There are many methods of disposal to consider when the officer deals with the breach ranging from advice to prosecution.
Skidding tyres and 'holding on a bit' are not the actions of a careful and competent driver as would be the test set by a court. In those circumstances and all the others attendant at the time, an officer would make a decision about the disposal of the conduct witnessed. That might involve a court appearance for the person committing the breach and for the officer to explain about the circumstances.
supermono said:
That's really saddening VH because it reinforces the stereotype "I AM THE LAW!" attitude some people think the police have.
For the record, if you saw the activity outlined above, do you honestly and truthfully think that taking somebody's car away -- or indeed even stopping them at all -- would be worthwhile from a safety or any other point of view? I know you often like to joke about not going over 60 even if it'd make an overtake safer, but seriously this time, what do you think?
SM
For the record, if you saw the activity outlined above, do you honestly and truthfully think that taking somebody's car away -- or indeed even stopping them at all -- would be worthwhile from a safety or any other point of view? I know you often like to joke about not going over 60 even if it'd make an overtake safer, but seriously this time, what do you think?
SM
I fancy that I can tell the difference between a minor error of judgement & a bit of hooning.
How I'd deal with each would be quite different.
supermono said:
mg6b said:
Driver causing unnecessary noise.
I think it's necessary that when a tyre rubs on the road surface it makes some form of noise ranging from a gentle whine to a lurid howl/bark. Otherwise I reckon the manufacturers would have engineered it out.
Or have I missed something obvious?
SM
It is not necessary for a driver to cause a wheel to skid over the surface causing a screeching sound and emmiting smoke and the smell of burning rubber in most circumstances.
If the driver so doing was trying to avoid an imminent collisions by accelerating hard to get out of the way, that would be a reasonable explanation.
GT starts from traffic lights and off roundabouts may require a little more 'explanation' by the perpetrator to convince any officer with even a modicum of intelligence that they should not dispose of the breach of that particular act or law in a positive manner.
mg6b said:
Skidding tyres and 'holding on a bit' are not the actions of a careful and competent driver as would be the test set by a court.
How's about the test set by a panel of experienced drivers in the real world? Surely someone gently coaxing a car into oversteer on an empty roundabout whilst turning right (ie not going round and round) during the course of their journey would be the actions of a very careful and competent driver?
SM
supermono said:
mg6b said:
Skidding tyres and 'holding on a bit' are not the actions of a careful and competent driver as would be the test set by a court.
How's about the test set by a panel of experienced drivers in the real world? Surely someone gently coaxing a car into oversteer on an empty roundabout whilst turning right (ie not going round and round) during the course of their journey would be the actions of a very careful and competent driver?
SM
Is this taught on the driving test where the ability of a driver is measured against careful and competent standards laid down by parliament?
Impressive? Possibly?
On a road, it is illegal and not the actions of a careful and competent driver which constitutes a breach of Section 3 RTA 1988 both in that it is careless and inconsiderate. It also could be argued that there is a loss of control because the wheels are not gripping the road surface but sliding over the top of it.
mg6b said:
It is not necessary for a driver to cause a wheel to skid over the surface causing a screeching sound and emmiting smoke and the smell of burning rubber in most circumstances.
No I suppose not. But it can be quite good fun, and when done harmlessly what's the, erm, harm? Really?
SM
supermono said:
mg6b said:
Skidding tyres and 'holding on a bit' are not the actions of a careful and competent driver as would be the test set by a court.
How's about the test set by a panel of experienced drivers in the real world? Surely someone gently coaxing a car into oversteer on an empty roundabout whilst turning right (ie not going round and round) during the course of their journey would be the actions of a very careful and competent driver?
SM
That's not the test that's set in law though, so doesn't apply.
You shouldn't be looking to drive at your, the vehicles or the conditions limits. You should be within them. Public roads aren't a playground.
supermono said:
mg6b said:
It is not necessary for a driver to cause a wheel to skid over the surface causing a screeching sound and emmiting smoke and the smell of burning rubber in most circumstances.
No I suppose not. But it can be quite good fun, and when done harmlessly what's the, erm, harm? Really?
SM
None. Just the same as a little toot of white powder up the hooter does no real harm as long as it isn't regular and the person does not get addicted to it.
It happens to be illegal though and can be highly addictive, just like hooning from lights and roundabouts
If witnessed by police, it is the duty of the police to bring this breach to the attention of the miscreant person and to protect them and others from the consequences of the problem getting out of hand and hurting someone!
mg6b said:
It happens to be illegal though and can be highly addictive, just like hooning from lights and roundabouts
I think that my driving skills (such as they are) have been improved massively by taking advantage of those occasions where I've been able to explore the way my vehicle behaves under conditions of poor traction. In fact I'd go so far as to say that I can drive more safely in the rain/ice/over an errant diesel spill than I would ever had been able to if I'd not pushed things a little bit when conditions were right.
Now that has to be a good thing, right? I mean I've NEVER lost control or gone into anyone or even got remotely close to losing control when I've embarked on a little driver improvement session out and about. And it's easy to spot those people who aren't used to being behind the wheel of a car that's losing traction -- they're the ones who brake mid corner or turn icy road oversteer into spin/oncoming traffic collisions by total failure to bring the slide under control.
Maybe they'd have liked to have taken advantage of perfect conditions to learn a bit of wheelsmanship but were too afraid of having their cars impounded if plod saw?
I wonder how john law tells the difference between driver ed and "hooning"?
Despite this thread I honestly think in the vast majority of cases he acknowledges there's a wide grey area...
SM
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff