Urban Camoflage
Discussion
Having looked into how the ANPR systems use computer graphics pattern recognition to first identify the numberplate and then deffine the text what would happen if you had a plastic graphic that covered the rear of your car with the same background colour as the numberplate and covered with numbers and letters, it would surely work like DPM and cause it a bit of a headache. Only if the were to analyse the tape manually could they work it out. As far as I am aware the ANPR system does not record the images.
Is this correct?
Is this correct?
I suspect that the best way would be to put on graphics that are close enough to a number plate to cause the computer to recognise multiple plates. Really not something that is easy to test though! Also something that I clearly would not condone...
Edited by Rob_the_Sparky on Wednesday 16th May 19:33
I agree; as a law aiding citizen, ANPR isn't an area for concern...yet. In fact, I wouldn't want to distract the system from its role of identifying uninsured and disqualified drivers. However, it will be worth remembering if they introduce road pricing by ANPR, it'd make the system groan under the load a bit.
I can't see there being a specific law against it...but I think they'd be one fairly quickly!
It obviously wouldn't work well on cameras - the guy at the office would just pick the number out manually, but it would prevent fully automated systems from functioning, and is almost worthy of use just to prevent the partnerships making even more cash...
However, if you did use it, it would almost certainly result in a (deserved) pull, as above - probably not anything else if you chose the font size, colour and number/letter combos's to avoid any possible confusion with the legal size of those on the plate, i.e. just enought to confuse the issue (move the plate to the side as well might help?)
An interesting idea nonetheless, and I'm disapointed not to have thought of it myself!
I can't see there being a specific law against it...but I think they'd be one fairly quickly!
It obviously wouldn't work well on cameras - the guy at the office would just pick the number out manually, but it would prevent fully automated systems from functioning, and is almost worthy of use just to prevent the partnerships making even more cash...
However, if you did use it, it would almost certainly result in a (deserved) pull, as above - probably not anything else if you chose the font size, colour and number/letter combos's to avoid any possible confusion with the legal size of those on the plate, i.e. just enought to confuse the issue (move the plate to the side as well might help?)
An interesting idea nonetheless, and I'm disapointed not to have thought of it myself!
Its not that I have an issue with the intended use of tracking untaxed and uninsured drivers, its just that you know they will try and leverage it to our detriment, that just gets my back up. I do not condone uninsured driving etc. indeed i feel they should be more harsh on these peope, but they always seem to get a wee fine that is less than it would cost to insure their shed in the first place.
What concerns me is the furture use to track where we as free citizens go and when, its just too big brother for me! they should concentrate on locking up criminals and throwing out all the people who turn up in our country and flount our laws.
Not to mention that cloning number plate is not exactly rocket science
What concerns me is the furture use to track where we as free citizens go and when, its just too big brother for me! they should concentrate on locking up criminals and throwing out all the people who turn up in our country and flount our laws.
Not to mention that cloning number plate is not exactly rocket science
Trust me on this one, if you go past an ANPR van, and it fails to read, it lights things up, and you tend to get pulled. The plate on the bike was plenty big enough for the Gatso to read, but not ANPR, and luckily enough I was carrying a HORT/1 from the day before, so didnt collect another ticket.
If they cant read the plate, they'll pull you to find out why, then ping you for not abiding by the C&U regs.
You're quite right about the tiny fines, but you'll always have a hardcore of people who dont give a monkeys. More and more frequent pulls of the people who it might matter to having a record and a court appearance will whittle this down, but people still drink and drive, dont they?
If they cant read the plate, they'll pull you to find out why, then ping you for not abiding by the C&U regs.
You're quite right about the tiny fines, but you'll always have a hardcore of people who dont give a monkeys. More and more frequent pulls of the people who it might matter to having a record and a court appearance will whittle this down, but people still drink and drive, dont they?
They need a retroreflective plate background as they operate in the infra-red range with infra-red emitters so day/night makes no difference. Based on that assumption it would not be difficult to flummox the system. The software first looks for the plate shape, identifies it, then the numbers.
Specs systems do store a full screen image shot, having received one myself.
As for ANPR it's exactly that, automatic though often with an operator or two on hand
so if the system does not see plate it's nothing to flag up, so down to an operator to spot one it has'nt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automati
Specs systems do store a full screen image shot, having received one myself.
As for ANPR it's exactly that, automatic though often with an operator or two on hand
so if the system does not see plate it's nothing to flag up, so down to an operator to spot one it has'nt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automati
Bing o said:
PCJ anyone?
There has to have been a criminal act in order for it to be PCJ, if you are simply smoking along minding your own business, insured, taxed and with a valid licence it wouldn't apply.
In R v Selvage and Morgan [1982] QB 372 it was held that in order to lay the charge a course of justice must have been embarked on in the sense that proceedings of some kind are in being or are imminent or investigations which could or might bring proceedings about are in progress. The conduct must be:
"conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the defendant whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting them on a false trail." (at pp379,399).
markmullen said:
Bing o said:
PCJ anyone?
There has to have been a criminal act in order for it to be PCJ, if you are simply smoking along minding your own business, insured, taxed and with a valid licence it wouldn't apply.
In R v Selvage and Morgan [1982] QB 372 it was held that in order to lay the charge a course of justice must have been embarked on in the sense that proceedings of some kind are in being or are imminent or investigations which could or might bring proceedings about are in progress. The conduct must be:
"conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the defendant whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting them on a false trail." (at pp379,399).
I make that Bar room blusterer 0 - Lawyer 1.
Excellent information, thanks.
SM
markmullen said:
Bing o said:
PCJ anyone?
There has to have been a criminal act in order for it to be PCJ, if you are simply smoking along minding your own business, insured, taxed and with a valid licence it wouldn't apply.
In R v Selvage and Morgan [1982] QB 372 it was held that in order to lay the charge a course of justice must have been embarked on in the sense that proceedings of some kind are in being or are imminent or investigations which could or might bring proceedings about are in progress. The conduct must be:
"conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the defendant whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting them on a false trail." (at pp379,399).
slightly off topic, whats happend to bLiar and cash for honors
cptsideways said:
They need a retroreflective plate background as they operate in the infra-red range with infra-red emitters so day/night makes no difference. Based on that assumption it would not be difficult to flummox the system. The software first looks for the plate shape, identifies it, then the numbers.
Specs systems do store a full screen image shot, having received one myself.
As for ANPR it's exactly that, automatic though often with an operator or two on hand so if the system does not see plate it's nothing to flag up, so down to an operator to spot one it has'nt.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automati
Specs systems do store a full screen image shot, having received one myself.
As for ANPR it's exactly that, automatic though often with an operator or two on hand
so if the system does not see plate it's nothing to flag up, so down to an operator to spot one it has'nt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automati
I am not convinced that the wiki entry is exactly correct. Some years ago, I was involved in a project that monitored the movement of 32ft containers in and out of docks. Every 32ft container has a unique ID number usually painted on the sides and front and rear of containers. The system used a fixed video camera and vidoe grabs were analysed by the software for a valid ID. These ID's were simple black numerals painted against the containers main colour without any border or edge. Identification was consistent and correct, using an OCR algorithm.
Rob_the_Sparky said:
I suspect that the best way would be to put on graphics that are close enough to a number plate to cause the computer to recognise multiple plates. Really not something that is easy to test though! Also something that I clearly would not condone...
Edited by Rob_the_Sparky on Wednesday 16th May 19:33
Many HGVs have multiple registration plates that identify everything from the semi-trailer reference number to the nickname of the driver. Do these cause ANPR problems?
''In R v Selvage and Morgan [1982] QB 372 it was held that in order to lay the charge a course of justice must have been embarked on in the sense that proceedings of some kind are in being or are imminent or investigations which could or might bring proceedings about are in progress. The conduct must be:
"conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the defendant whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting them on a false trail." (at pp379,399). ''
Whilst it is unlikely you would face a charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice. You could still be arrested for the offence. More than likely you would be stuck on for obstructing a constable in the lawful execution of his duty.
"conduct which relates to judicial proceedings, civil or criminal, whether or not they have been instituted but which are within the contemplation of the defendant whose conduct was designed to affect the outcome. That conduct includes giving false information to the police with the object of among other things putting them on a false trail." (at pp379,399). ''
Whilst it is unlikely you would face a charge of attempting to pervert the course of justice. You could still be arrested for the offence. More than likely you would be stuck on for obstructing a constable in the lawful execution of his duty.
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