for the bib's - UK residents with foreign licence
Discussion
What if someone, who is a UK resident but still has his foreign driving licence gets pulled over for a minor office for which others normally would get points on their licence.
I'm still driving on my Dutch driving licence and we don't do point in Holland, so technically i can't get points on my licence.
So what if i would "earn" points here, would i just be lucky, or would they be stalled away on some piece of paper and whenever i apply for my Brittish licence they will then be put on ?
Any bibs here who'd had to deal with similar situations ?
I've been only pulled over once so far for "overtaking a car on the Dutch side" (although they didn't really liked that comment) who was doing 25 in a 40 zone on the fast lane, late at night. Luckily i was still in my uniform so i got of with a warning, but i'm just curious what will happen if i would to "earn" penalty point.
From the DVLA website :
Driving in Great Britain (GB) on a licence issued in a European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA) country :
Provided your licence remains valid you may drive in GB,
Car, motorcycle driving licence holders (ordinary driving licence):
- until aged 70 or for three years after becoming resident, whichever is the longer period.
I've been a resident here now for about 8 months.
I'm still driving on my Dutch driving licence and we don't do point in Holland, so technically i can't get points on my licence.
So what if i would "earn" points here, would i just be lucky, or would they be stalled away on some piece of paper and whenever i apply for my Brittish licence they will then be put on ?
Any bibs here who'd had to deal with similar situations ?
I've been only pulled over once so far for "overtaking a car on the Dutch side" (although they didn't really liked that comment) who was doing 25 in a 40 zone on the fast lane, late at night. Luckily i was still in my uniform so i got of with a warning, but i'm just curious what will happen if i would to "earn" penalty point.
From the DVLA website :
Driving in Great Britain (GB) on a licence issued in a European Community/European Economic Area (EC/EEA) country :
Provided your licence remains valid you may drive in GB,
Car, motorcycle driving licence holders (ordinary driving licence):
- until aged 70 or for three years after becoming resident, whichever is the longer period.
I've been a resident here now for about 8 months.
Edited by Medic-one on Tuesday 22 May 18:22
DVLA will create a skeletal UK driving license and the points will be put there.
They will be searchable by BiB in the street doing the PNC driving license checks.
If they have a perminant UK address suitable for summons they will usually be reported to court as they cannot surrender a full valid UK license and we cannot endorse non uk licenses at the roadside.
They will be searchable by BiB in the street doing the PNC driving license checks.
If they have a perminant UK address suitable for summons they will usually be reported to court as they cannot surrender a full valid UK license and we cannot endorse non uk licenses at the roadside.
In my experience it's unlikely (though sure it's possible) to come to that...
Example one. In North Wales, where I used to work. Being driven by a colleague from South America, driving on a foreign licence. He was driving in a strickly enforced 50 limit - dual carriageway. Traffic Police doing 45 in the inside lane, queue doing 49 in the outside. Colleague tailgates the car in front, passed the police car then accelerates away at 65 - 70 as soon as the car in front pulled in. Gets pulled over. Speaks Spanglish to the Welch coppa. Receives a slap on the wrist and told to slow down.
Example two. Same driver, same area. Driving slightly above speed limit and narrowly shoots a red (this is how the guy generally drives!). Strange given marked volvo which had stopped at the light. Blues come on, friend gets pulled over. Speaks English this time (he's 100% fluent and has slight Welsh accent!). Notebook is out - looks like a FPN - but he produces South American license. Cop goes to his colleage. Umms and Arrghs. Hands license back, tells friend not to be naughty and to slow down.
I figure if this is happening in North Wales, it's likely to be going on everywhere.
I'd stay with your Dutch license as long as possible - if my friend can get away with driving like a complete idiot, I'm sure the same would work if you're stopped doing 80 down the motorway.
Example one. In North Wales, where I used to work. Being driven by a colleague from South America, driving on a foreign licence. He was driving in a strickly enforced 50 limit - dual carriageway. Traffic Police doing 45 in the inside lane, queue doing 49 in the outside. Colleague tailgates the car in front, passed the police car then accelerates away at 65 - 70 as soon as the car in front pulled in. Gets pulled over. Speaks Spanglish to the Welch coppa. Receives a slap on the wrist and told to slow down.
Example two. Same driver, same area. Driving slightly above speed limit and narrowly shoots a red (this is how the guy generally drives!). Strange given marked volvo which had stopped at the light. Blues come on, friend gets pulled over. Speaks English this time (he's 100% fluent and has slight Welsh accent!). Notebook is out - looks like a FPN - but he produces South American license. Cop goes to his colleage. Umms and Arrghs. Hands license back, tells friend not to be naughty and to slow down.
I figure if this is happening in North Wales, it's likely to be going on everywhere.
I'd stay with your Dutch license as long as possible - if my friend can get away with driving like a complete idiot, I'm sure the same would work if you're stopped doing 80 down the motorway.
onedsla said:
In my experience it's unlikely (though sure it's possible) to come to that...
Example one. In North Wales, where I used to work. Being driven by a colleague from South America, driving on a foreign licence. He was driving in a strickly enforced 50 limit - dual carriageway. Traffic Police doing 45 in the inside lane, queue doing 49 in the outside. Colleague tailgates the car in front, passed the police car then accelerates away at 65 - 70 as soon as the car in front pulled in. Gets pulled over. Speaks Spanglish to the Welch coppa. Receives a slap on the wrist and told to slow down.
Example two. Same driver, same area. Driving slightly above speed limit and narrowly shoots a red (this is how the guy generally drives!). Strange given marked volvo which had stopped at the light. Blues come on, friend gets pulled over. Speaks English this time (he's 100% fluent and has slight Welsh accent!). Notebook is out - looks like a FPN - but he produces South American license. Cop goes to his colleage. Umms and Arrghs. Hands license back, tells friend not to be naughty and to slow down.
I figure if this is happening in North Wales, it's likely to be going on everywhere.
I'd stay with your Dutch license as long as possible - if my friend can get away with driving like a complete idiot, I'm sure the same would work if you're stopped doing 80 down the motorway.
Or alternatively if unable to provide an address suitable for service of a summons, arrest & to court in custody.Example one. In North Wales, where I used to work. Being driven by a colleague from South America, driving on a foreign licence. He was driving in a strickly enforced 50 limit - dual carriageway. Traffic Police doing 45 in the inside lane, queue doing 49 in the outside. Colleague tailgates the car in front, passed the police car then accelerates away at 65 - 70 as soon as the car in front pulled in. Gets pulled over. Speaks Spanglish to the Welch coppa. Receives a slap on the wrist and told to slow down.
Example two. Same driver, same area. Driving slightly above speed limit and narrowly shoots a red (this is how the guy generally drives!). Strange given marked volvo which had stopped at the light. Blues come on, friend gets pulled over. Speaks English this time (he's 100% fluent and has slight Welsh accent!). Notebook is out - looks like a FPN - but he produces South American license. Cop goes to his colleage. Umms and Arrghs. Hands license back, tells friend not to be naughty and to slow down.
I figure if this is happening in North Wales, it's likely to be going on everywhere.
I'd stay with your Dutch license as long as possible - if my friend can get away with driving like a complete idiot, I'm sure the same would work if you're stopped doing 80 down the motorway.
Von - very true, and I considered him very lucky at the time; perhaps the cars were enroute to something more important (or perhaps about to set up a speed trap) ;-)
I'm certainly not applauding his actions, but from his experiences (they weren't the only times he'd been pulled, but he's never been charged), it would appear that he has more motoring 'lives' than a cat (given the cat held a British driving license).
I'm certainly not applauding his actions, but from his experiences (they weren't the only times he'd been pulled, but he's never been charged), it would appear that he has more motoring 'lives' than a cat (given the cat held a British driving license).
flemke said:
The DVLA will now create for you a "skeletal" licence.
You won't need to get a UK licence, but the points on your skeletal licence will accrue just as they would do on your UK licence.
If you reach 12, you'll be banned.
Hmm damn it. I was hoping to be lucky and not be able to get points...You won't need to get a UK licence, but the points on your skeletal licence will accrue just as they would do on your UK licence.
If you reach 12, you'll be banned.
Though thanks for the reply guys!
euroboy said:
Then id have a UK license for when im in Holland and a Dutch license for when im driving in the UK.
Would the BiB automatically know im taking the piss if I get pulled in the UK and produce a foreign license.
Other problem which might occur then is that you run into a copper who speaks Dutch, and wonders why you with your Dutch licence don't...Would the BiB automatically know im taking the piss if I get pulled in the UK and produce a foreign license.
As least when i open my mouth it's quiet clear i'm not a local
With the increased mobility of labour and the ability of EU citizens to live and work in any EU country, the water has been 'muddied' much more so than, say, 30 years ago.
My son is moving to france shortly and will obtain a French licence in direct exchange for his UK one. It will have his French address on it. However, he will be living and working in the UK for around 6+ months each year (he works in F1 engineering) but has no permanent UK address. It may be that whilst here he'll be staying partly with his mother, partly with me and partly in hotels.
He will, of course, still have his 'duplicate' UK licence, having handed in his UK one to the French licencing authorities. With the menace of being without a physical licence should it have to go to the DVLA for application of points, anyone who has to travel abroad on business, or who partly resides abroad, simply has to have 2 licences, one for the points and the other to permit driving abroad whilst the 'points' one is at DVLA (up to 6 weeks).
His French car will be insured and registered to him in France, but he'll keep a car here for use on short visits. This car will be registered to him at my home address, but with him as keeper. I shall be sending any mail addressed to him here on to France without opening it whilst he's there.
So, how will this obsession with applying points to him work in practice should his UK car get 'pinged' by a camera? Of course, he could use a P.O. Box as his UK address whilst in France, but my address is more convenient.
This will 'muddy' the water sufficiently for him to be virtually watertight as far as points goes.
My son is moving to france shortly and will obtain a French licence in direct exchange for his UK one. It will have his French address on it. However, he will be living and working in the UK for around 6+ months each year (he works in F1 engineering) but has no permanent UK address. It may be that whilst here he'll be staying partly with his mother, partly with me and partly in hotels.
He will, of course, still have his 'duplicate' UK licence, having handed in his UK one to the French licencing authorities. With the menace of being without a physical licence should it have to go to the DVLA for application of points, anyone who has to travel abroad on business, or who partly resides abroad, simply has to have 2 licences, one for the points and the other to permit driving abroad whilst the 'points' one is at DVLA (up to 6 weeks).
His French car will be insured and registered to him in France, but he'll keep a car here for use on short visits. This car will be registered to him at my home address, but with him as keeper. I shall be sending any mail addressed to him here on to France without opening it whilst he's there.
So, how will this obsession with applying points to him work in practice should his UK car get 'pinged' by a camera? Of course, he could use a P.O. Box as his UK address whilst in France, but my address is more convenient.
This will 'muddy' the water sufficiently for him to be virtually watertight as far as points goes.
Cooperman said:
With the increased mobility of labour and the ability of EU citizens to live and work in any EU country, the water has been 'muddied' much more so than, say, 30 years ago.
My son is moving to france shortly and will obtain a French licence in direct exchange for his UK one. It will have his French address on it. However, he will be living and working in the UK for around 6+ months each year (he works in F1 engineering) but has no permanent UK address. It may be that whilst here he'll be staying partly with his mother, partly with me and partly in hotels.
He will, of course, still have his 'duplicate' UK licence, having handed in his UK one to the French licencing authorities. With the menace of being without a physical licence should it have to go to the DVLA for application of points, anyone who has to travel abroad on business, or who partly resides abroad, simply has to have 2 licences, one for the points and the other to permit driving abroad whilst the 'points' one is at DVLA (up to 6 weeks).
His French car will be insured and registered to him in France, but he'll keep a car here for use on short visits. This car will be registered to him at my home address, but with him as keeper. I shall be sending any mail addressed to him here on to France without opening it whilst he's there.
So, how will this obsession with applying points to him work in practice should his UK car get 'pinged' by a camera? Of course, he could use a P.O. Box as his UK address whilst in France, but my address is more convenient.
This will 'muddy' the water sufficiently for him to be virtually watertight as far as points goes.
The 'duplicate' licence means nothing. The DVLA records will show his licence has been traded in for a French one. If he produces the "duplicate" he may find himself having to answer a few questions. My son is moving to france shortly and will obtain a French licence in direct exchange for his UK one. It will have his French address on it. However, he will be living and working in the UK for around 6+ months each year (he works in F1 engineering) but has no permanent UK address. It may be that whilst here he'll be staying partly with his mother, partly with me and partly in hotels.
He will, of course, still have his 'duplicate' UK licence, having handed in his UK one to the French licencing authorities. With the menace of being without a physical licence should it have to go to the DVLA for application of points, anyone who has to travel abroad on business, or who partly resides abroad, simply has to have 2 licences, one for the points and the other to permit driving abroad whilst the 'points' one is at DVLA (up to 6 weeks).
His French car will be insured and registered to him in France, but he'll keep a car here for use on short visits. This car will be registered to him at my home address, but with him as keeper. I shall be sending any mail addressed to him here on to France without opening it whilst he's there.
So, how will this obsession with applying points to him work in practice should his UK car get 'pinged' by a camera? Of course, he could use a P.O. Box as his UK address whilst in France, but my address is more convenient.
This will 'muddy' the water sufficiently for him to be virtually watertight as far as points goes.
The only way you can have two licences, is pass a test in each country. If you get disqualified in one of those countries though, you'll be disqualified from driving in that country on any licence (even if you had 30 of them).
Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 23 May 21:56
Let's get real. Anyone here in the UK has to have a full UK licence for Insurance purposes.
I have a valid Nigerian licence, but, that licence was not part of the equation to obtain insurance.
Insurance requirements for driving a vehicle in the UK require the insured to hold a full UK driving license.
Wakey, wakey, you will not even get insurance here without holding a UK licence. Anybody attempting to short circuit this protocol ought be be immediately banned. Why would you try to attempt this?
No insurance chancers, Jail, Jail, Jail.
I have a valid Nigerian licence, but, that licence was not part of the equation to obtain insurance.
Insurance requirements for driving a vehicle in the UK require the insured to hold a full UK driving license.
Wakey, wakey, you will not even get insurance here without holding a UK licence. Anybody attempting to short circuit this protocol ought be be immediately banned. Why would you try to attempt this?
No insurance chancers, Jail, Jail, Jail.
hemibum said:
Let's get real. Anyone here in the UK has to have a full UK licence for Insurance purposes.
Insurance requirements for driving a vehicle in the UK require the insured to hold a full UK driving license.
Wakey, wakey, you will not even get insurance here without holding a UK licence.
Insurance requirements for driving a vehicle in the UK require the insured to hold a full UK driving license.
Wakey, wakey, you will not even get insurance here without holding a UK licence.
Sorry mate, but i'm quiet "wakey wakey" at the moment and it's no problem having a foreign driving licence whilst applying for car insurance.
I've a perminent UK adress, a UK bank account, a DUTCH driving licence, a UK car and UK car insurance.
I spoke to at least 6 different insurance companies before going with the one i'm with now (Direct line) and they all have no problem with a foreign driving licence, as long as it's one from a country with the EU.
The only thing is you just pay a little more, but at least it saves me a lot of fuss when i go back home (with i do quiet often) and get pulled over there.
VH, first of all, althought the 'duplicate' has no validity in the UK if it's been traded for a French one, in any other country, except France and the UK, it would still be seen as a valid licence. For example, if I had to send my UK licence to have points added and I had to go to Germany on business, I could still hire a car there with the duplicate. Indeed, in business now the vast majority of those doing business internationally have to have this duplicate. To tell, for example, a Project Manager that he/she can't go to the USA on business because it could take the DVLA up to 6 weeks to return a licence with points to be added is ludicrous. One can't delay a multi-million pound project for 6 weeks because of 'points pettyness'. Let's get real here.
On the subject of insurance/licence, you'll find that for insurance to be valid a driver has to hold or have held and not be disqualified from holding a licence appropriate to the vehicle being driven. If I had held a UK licence, which I had since traded for a French one, I would meet the requirements in full.
How do you think foreign visitors manage to hire cars which are hired by companies who insure with UK ins. companies?
In fact, with the EU regulations as they are, there is nothing to stop me from technically making my home with my son in France, getting a French registered car, licencing and insuring it in France and driving it in the UK. I checked this with DVLA and they confirmed this. In fact, the regulations state that once a vehicle has been in the UK for 6 months it must be registered here. However, it appears that if the vehicle is taken out of the country, when it returns the 6 months starts again. It's the same with licences. It is stated that you can drive on a foreign (EU) licence here for up to 3 years, but then you must get a UK one. Again, it doesn't say what happens if you are technically resident abroad again before the 3 years are up, but then come back. Presumably the 3 years starts again. Anyway, who is checking?
I do know that if I got to 6 points I would immediately get a French car and, probably, a French licence until my points were all off.
On the subject of insurance/licence, you'll find that for insurance to be valid a driver has to hold or have held and not be disqualified from holding a licence appropriate to the vehicle being driven. If I had held a UK licence, which I had since traded for a French one, I would meet the requirements in full.
How do you think foreign visitors manage to hire cars which are hired by companies who insure with UK ins. companies?
In fact, with the EU regulations as they are, there is nothing to stop me from technically making my home with my son in France, getting a French registered car, licencing and insuring it in France and driving it in the UK. I checked this with DVLA and they confirmed this. In fact, the regulations state that once a vehicle has been in the UK for 6 months it must be registered here. However, it appears that if the vehicle is taken out of the country, when it returns the 6 months starts again. It's the same with licences. It is stated that you can drive on a foreign (EU) licence here for up to 3 years, but then you must get a UK one. Again, it doesn't say what happens if you are technically resident abroad again before the 3 years are up, but then come back. Presumably the 3 years starts again. Anyway, who is checking?
I do know that if I got to 6 points I would immediately get a French car and, probably, a French licence until my points were all off.
There certainly seem to be some 'grey' areas within current EU legislation.
For example, if a business owns an asset somewhere in Europe ther mustbe "no barriers to the movement of business assets or labour within the Community". I know that to be true as I had an issue with the hiring of UK engineers into Germany a few years ago and my Euro MP had the German authorities remove the requirement for a German Labour Leasing Licence to be removed on the basis that we had a valid UK equivalent.
The same applies to motor vehicles. I can, as an example, open an office in another EU country, and nothing may prevent me from so doing. Then I can buy a motor vehicle and register it to that company, insure it by that company and drive it anywhere in Europe, technically without restriction. Local or national vehicle regulations cannot over-rule that as Euro-regs are sacrosanct.
To be blunt, you can 'opt out' of the 'cash-camera' schemes with relatively little effort, just a will to do so, but, as VH will rightly point out, you can't opt out of 'proper' road policing. That I think we all like! Even VH might have some sympathy with this - just maybe.
For example, if a business owns an asset somewhere in Europe ther mustbe "no barriers to the movement of business assets or labour within the Community". I know that to be true as I had an issue with the hiring of UK engineers into Germany a few years ago and my Euro MP had the German authorities remove the requirement for a German Labour Leasing Licence to be removed on the basis that we had a valid UK equivalent.
The same applies to motor vehicles. I can, as an example, open an office in another EU country, and nothing may prevent me from so doing. Then I can buy a motor vehicle and register it to that company, insure it by that company and drive it anywhere in Europe, technically without restriction. Local or national vehicle regulations cannot over-rule that as Euro-regs are sacrosanct.
To be blunt, you can 'opt out' of the 'cash-camera' schemes with relatively little effort, just a will to do so, but, as VH will rightly point out, you can't opt out of 'proper' road policing. That I think we all like! Even VH might have some sympathy with this - just maybe.
There certainly seem to be some 'grey' areas within current EU legislation.
For example, if a business owns an asset somewhere in Europe ther mustbe "no barriers to the movement of business assets or labour within the Community". I know that to be true as I had an issue with the hiring of UK engineers into Germany a few years ago and my Euro MP had the German authorities remove the requirement for a German Labour Leasing Licence to be removed on the basis that we had a valid UK equivalent.
The same applies to motor vehicles. I can, as an example, open an office in another EU country, and nothing may prevent me from so doing. Then I can buy a motor vehicle and register it to that company, insure it by that company and drive it anywhere in Europe, technically without restriction. Local or national vehicle regulations cannot over-rule that as Euro-regs are sacrosanct.
To be blunt, you can 'opt out' of the 'cash-camera' schemes with relatively little effort, just a will to do so, but, as VH will rightly point out, you can't opt out of 'proper' road policing. That I think we all like! Even VH might have some sympathy with this - just maybe.
For example, if a business owns an asset somewhere in Europe ther mustbe "no barriers to the movement of business assets or labour within the Community". I know that to be true as I had an issue with the hiring of UK engineers into Germany a few years ago and my Euro MP had the German authorities remove the requirement for a German Labour Leasing Licence to be removed on the basis that we had a valid UK equivalent.
The same applies to motor vehicles. I can, as an example, open an office in another EU country, and nothing may prevent me from so doing. Then I can buy a motor vehicle and register it to that company, insure it by that company and drive it anywhere in Europe, technically without restriction. Local or national vehicle regulations cannot over-rule that as Euro-regs are sacrosanct.
To be blunt, you can 'opt out' of the 'cash-camera' schemes with relatively little effort, just a will to do so, but, as VH will rightly point out, you can't opt out of 'proper' road policing. That I think we all like! Even VH might have some sympathy with this - just maybe.
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