Any advice on this one - mate in trouble
Discussion
got stopped at a set of red lights by traffic cops,despite their car being
equipped with video-radar-speedo-they are going to do me for an estimated speed
between them(70 in a 40)no hard evidence. any technicalities i can use here?and they
didn't read me my rights.HEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPP.
they pulled up next to me at the red lights,told to
turn bike off,then gave me the between me and my expert colleague speech estimate you were doing 70 in a 40,next time we see you will be in court and
handed a producer.they should have said do you wish to say anything blah blah blah.
?
Cheers,
E
equipped with video-radar-speedo-they are going to do me for an estimated speed
between them(70 in a 40)no hard evidence. any technicalities i can use here?and they
didn't read me my rights.HEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPPPPPPPPPP.
they pulled up next to me at the red lights,told to
turn bike off,then gave me the between me and my expert colleague speech estimate you were doing 70 in a 40,next time we see you will be in court and
handed a producer.they should have said do you wish to say anything blah blah blah.
?
Cheers,
E
"estimated" ?? where's the *proof* ? you wouldn't go to prison for murder if they "estimated" you killed someone, so how can you be done for this?
YOu ought at the least be able to bargain it down to 6, which is only 3pts + £60 if you write to CPS.
On the other hand, challenge it.. get the evidence, and take it to court + get compensation for wasted time. It can be done.
Get thinking of good mitigation as well, just in case.
C
YOu ought at the least be able to bargain it down to 6, which is only 3pts + £60 if you write to CPS.
On the other hand, challenge it.. get the evidence, and take it to court + get compensation for wasted time. It can be done.
Get thinking of good mitigation as well, just in case.
C
an estimated speed
between them(70 in a 40)no hard evidence.
I think you will escape with this one
A few years back I was stopped by a solo police motorcyclist after I was having a race with white van man and doing 100mph on the A40. I spotted the copper in my rear view mirror some way back, and I slowed to 70mph legal limit. He pulled me over when he caught up, and suggested I was going extremely fast but couldn't prove it. The nice policeman gave me a lecture, and I politely said yes sir, no sir, won't do it again sir, and I was on my way again without any ticket or producer. Guess I was lucky. There was only 2 speed cameras on the A40 in London at that time
Good Luck !!
>> Edited by ledfoot on Friday 16th May 21:18
SpudGunner said: I am sure I have read somewhere that if there are 2 of them then their estimate of your speed is good enough for the courts to prosecute you I am afraid.
Hope I am not right for your sake, but thats what I remember...
so potentially, two coppers see you driving legally, make some wild assumptions re probably done something wrong etc... and "estimate" your speed at over the limit? - what can you do about that - you're royally screwed by plod and no way of getting out of it. This makes me afraid. please tell me this isn't so.
This is so. I was done some years ago for going through a red light, by two very young police people in a Panda car which was parked up a side street. I went over the line on amber. Where they were positioned they could not see the white line at the lights or any lights relating to my position on the road. A friend of mine, who at the time was a Traffic Sergeant, checked over the site of my crime and decided that there was no way the Traffic boys would try to make that stick as it was impossible to see the junction and signals properly.
To cut a long story short we went to court. The police children said that I came through the juntion three seconds after the lights went green for the other side (that being the only lights they could see). This meant that my lights had gone red when (at 30 mph) I was 120ft. before the white line ! A complete pack of lies. When I challenged this, the judge said that "two young PC's with their career ahead of them would have no reason to lie and jeopardise their futures". I argued that I had been driving Artics for 15 years, did 50k mls per year, never had an accident, and would hardly go through a red light which had changed when I was almost three Artic lengths away. There were two of them and one of me, so they could corroborate anything they chose to and I was stuffed. How could they jeopardise their futures when they were lying together? Nobody could ever find out they were lying. So, job done, 3pts and £90. Bunch of cnuts. The answer is, yes, they can do you for absolutely anything if two of them agree and you have no witness (even then a court will believe two cops before you and a mate). I should add that I genuinely believe that my case would never have happened had it been either Traffic or experienced officers. This pair were trying to make a point because I argued the red light thing was nonsense at the time they tried to charge me. The only effect it has had is that I will now never assist the Police with anything - I am deaf, dumb and blind to anything they say or want from me. I am a witness to nothing. Sad when one of my best friends is a Traffic Sergeant and a thoroughly decent and fair guy when at work. He was apalled at the outcome.
>> Edited by RUF 3 on Saturday 17th May 10:31
To cut a long story short we went to court. The police children said that I came through the juntion three seconds after the lights went green for the other side (that being the only lights they could see). This meant that my lights had gone red when (at 30 mph) I was 120ft. before the white line ! A complete pack of lies. When I challenged this, the judge said that "two young PC's with their career ahead of them would have no reason to lie and jeopardise their futures". I argued that I had been driving Artics for 15 years, did 50k mls per year, never had an accident, and would hardly go through a red light which had changed when I was almost three Artic lengths away. There were two of them and one of me, so they could corroborate anything they chose to and I was stuffed. How could they jeopardise their futures when they were lying together? Nobody could ever find out they were lying. So, job done, 3pts and £90. Bunch of cnuts. The answer is, yes, they can do you for absolutely anything if two of them agree and you have no witness (even then a court will believe two cops before you and a mate). I should add that I genuinely believe that my case would never have happened had it been either Traffic or experienced officers. This pair were trying to make a point because I argued the red light thing was nonsense at the time they tried to charge me. The only effect it has had is that I will now never assist the Police with anything - I am deaf, dumb and blind to anything they say or want from me. I am a witness to nothing. Sad when one of my best friends is a Traffic Sergeant and a thoroughly decent and fair guy when at work. He was apalled at the outcome.
>> Edited by RUF 3 on Saturday 17th May 10:31
well that's just dandy then.
after several nasty run ins with plod and their complete inability to defend property, stem crime, etc,etc,etc, I have stopped helping them. There was a minor RTA outside my house the other week. No one injured, oil on the road from some truck caused 2 lads to spin out & block the road (only damage one popped tyre). Plod turns up in T5 and I recognise him as the very same one who cut me up on the A69 roundabout (not in any rush, just driving carelessly).
I turned, and walked back in my house. You'll get no help from me, mate.
Hey Ho. the local coppers' a nice chap though.
after several nasty run ins with plod and their complete inability to defend property, stem crime, etc,etc,etc, I have stopped helping them. There was a minor RTA outside my house the other week. No one injured, oil on the road from some truck caused 2 lads to spin out & block the road (only damage one popped tyre). Plod turns up in T5 and I recognise him as the very same one who cut me up on the A69 roundabout (not in any rush, just driving carelessly).
I turned, and walked back in my house. You'll get no help from me, mate.
Hey Ho. the local coppers' a nice chap though.
My kid bro did a wheelie at an "estimated" speed, right in front of an ANPR setup.
He didnt get done for it tho....lol just no tax...(idiot)....
A few weeks later he went to the station as a witness to give a statement for something else, one of the cops at the ANPR came in and said "nice wheelie mate".....The other cop didnt know what he was on about, so the ANPR cop told him " this guy did a wheelie past the ANPR the other week...".
The cop taking the stement just shook his head slowly before carrying on.
Dont see how they can make this stick to be honest, and if you take it to court, theyll have to be sure that their statements all match in their little books, else it wont back them up...reasonable doubt and all that?
He didnt get done for it tho....lol just no tax...(idiot)....
A few weeks later he went to the station as a witness to give a statement for something else, one of the cops at the ANPR came in and said "nice wheelie mate".....The other cop didnt know what he was on about, so the ANPR cop told him " this guy did a wheelie past the ANPR the other week...".
The cop taking the stement just shook his head slowly before carrying on.
Dont see how they can make this stick to be honest, and if you take it to court, theyll have to be sure that their statements all match in their little books, else it wont back them up...reasonable doubt and all that?
Madcops comments on this thread confirm that two police officers can form an opinion of speed that is sufficient for a court of law to consider a prosecution:
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=32126&f=10&h=0&hw=prosecution+consider
Madcop also did a post a while ago that included the wording the police officer must use to form a verbal NIP at the time of the offence (mentions considering prosecution etc) If this verbal warning is issued they have 6 months to issue proceedings. If this verbal warning was not issued they have 14 days to issue a NIP thorugh the post in the same way as gatso NIPs are issued (ie 17 days inc postage).
DAZ
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=32126&f=10&h=0&hw=prosecution+consider
Madcop also did a post a while ago that included the wording the police officer must use to form a verbal NIP at the time of the offence (mentions considering prosecution etc) If this verbal warning is issued they have 6 months to issue proceedings. If this verbal warning was not issued they have 14 days to issue a NIP thorugh the post in the same way as gatso NIPs are issued (ie 17 days inc postage).
DAZ
Madcop also did a post a while ago that included the wording the police officer must use to form a verbal NIP at the time of the offence (mentions considering prosecution etc) If this verbal warning is issued they have 6 months to issue proceedings. If this verbal warning was not issued they have 14 days to issue a NIP thorugh the post in the same way as gatso NIPs are issued (ie 17 days inc postage).
DAZ
But of course, as in my case, if the two officers are prepared to say that they issued the warning - whether they did or not - then it must have been issued.
Take a hint. You know you were at it. They know you were at it. They were too slow on the buttons, or nice, and have offered a warning. Stop whinging. Alternative is a court appearance. 70 in 40 is not FP and £60.
If it happens again, be nice to them. They could come to court and relieve you of £200 of your English Pounds. They didn't this time.
If it happens again, be nice to them. They could come to court and relieve you of £200 of your English Pounds. They didn't this time.
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