Police law books "barely understandable"
Discussion
According to the Home Office, police law manuals are so heavy and unwieldy they could be used as weapons (and in some cases are ... but not physically). More importantly, the HO says that they are "barely understandable" ... which is presumably intended as an indictment of the manuals not of the BiB who struggle to comprehend them. And isn't there a H&S issue here too?
Amazingly, the HO now proposes to translate the Codes of Practice into a myriad of foreign languages - presumably so immigrants (both legal and illegal) and asylum seekers can pick the offence for which they will "cough". I would have though this would make the manuals more use as weapons ... or is it the intention to make them too heavy to even pick up?
An attempt to render the information onto CD was abandoned when it was realised that CDs could be used by vulnerable people to harm themselves ... but presumably not the police officers!
You couldn't make it up! Mind you this is the "not fit for purpose" government department.
Streaky
Amazingly, the HO now proposes to translate the Codes of Practice into a myriad of foreign languages - presumably so immigrants (both legal and illegal) and asylum seekers can pick the offence for which they will "cough". I would have though this would make the manuals more use as weapons ... or is it the intention to make them too heavy to even pick up?
An attempt to render the information onto CD was abandoned when it was realised that CDs could be used by vulnerable people to harm themselves ... but presumably not the police officers!
You couldn't make it up! Mind you this is the "not fit for purpose" government department.
Streaky
Edited by streaky on Saturday 2nd June 21:56
Well, the book used by the courts is called Archbold, it is pretty much double the size of the OED.....Oh, and it doesn't cover every offence, not by a long shot.
At the end of the day we have a lot of laws, most of them unneccessary, little wonder that people (including the police) don't know all of them/how they work etc...
At the end of the day we have a lot of laws, most of them unneccessary, little wonder that people (including the police) don't know all of them/how they work etc...
the Codes of Practice are a slim-ish paperback.
Detainees rights are already available in virtually any language.
Can't see a problem with foreign versions of the codes of practice, after all it is a right of s detainee to consult them.
Having them on disc is a good idea if they can then be printed out for the benefit of non English speakers.
Mind you I have given out countless copies of rights in foreign languages and no-one has ever asked for a translation of the codes!
No-one is going to give a disc to a detainee
Detainees rights are already available in virtually any language.
Can't see a problem with foreign versions of the codes of practice, after all it is a right of s detainee to consult them.
Having them on disc is a good idea if they can then be printed out for the benefit of non English speakers.
Mind you I have given out countless copies of rights in foreign languages and no-one has ever asked for a translation of the codes!
No-one is going to give a disc to a detainee
You're never going to fit every law into any book, hence all the amendments and noter-uppers. The court does use Archbold's and Blackstones from time to time, but primarily for traffic law the court uses Wilkinson's.
And of course it isn't complete. Law is open ended, and by definition, unlimited.
And of course it isn't complete. Law is open ended, and by definition, unlimited.
The law can be complicated. Having to learn it to an almost photgraphic level for promotion exams is like entering a higher plane of existence that is attempted usually by Buddhist Monks.
The Codes of Practice are detailed because they have to be. They are THE BOOK about how people in detention are treated.
Unfortunately 'Laws' are written by Lawyers working as Politicians that Lawyers then interpret with Case Law & Precedence. As much as this lot have tried to dumb down everthing else - you can't always make law books for the reading age of 12 year olds.
That's why people train and study to become knowledgeable in such matters.
The Codes of Practice are detailed because they have to be. They are THE BOOK about how people in detention are treated.
Unfortunately 'Laws' are written by Lawyers working as Politicians that Lawyers then interpret with Case Law & Precedence. As much as this lot have tried to dumb down everthing else - you can't always make law books for the reading age of 12 year olds.
That's why people train and study to become knowledgeable in such matters.
Skywalker said:
The law can be complicated. Having to learn it to an almost photgraphic level for promotion exams is like entering a higher plane of existence that is attempted usually by Buddhist Monks.
The Codes of Practice are detailed because they have to be. They are THE BOOK about how people in detention are treated.
Unfortunately 'Laws' are written by Lawyers working as Politicians that Lawyers then interpret with Case Law & Precedence. As much as this lot have tried to dumb down everthing else - you can't always make law books for the reading age of 12 year olds.
That's why people train and study to become knowledgeable in such matters.
Agreed.The Codes of Practice are detailed because they have to be. They are THE BOOK about how people in detention are treated.
Unfortunately 'Laws' are written by Lawyers working as Politicians that Lawyers then interpret with Case Law & Precedence. As much as this lot have tried to dumb down everthing else - you can't always make law books for the reading age of 12 year olds.
That's why people train and study to become knowledgeable in such matters.
Law, both civil and criminal is a complex process. That is of course why lawyers have to train for so long, and whilst I cannot remember my uni contract law case law references, I do remember the gist of them still.
The point is that whilst previous cases affect later laws and their relationship can be complex, these are often broken down to 'Codes of Practice' for policemen for example, so whilst they can make sure their evidence is admissable they do not need to know the case law from 1928 behind why that is the case.
Similarly, members of the public have similar guides. Much of criminal law is common sense, and motoring guides such as the Highway Code is well documented.
I do believe in the concept of 'if it aint broke dont fix it'. Our laws aint that bad (on the whole), and indeed where they can be improved case law is a continuous process for our changing times.
There are many good PACE interpretation books available that could be described as PACE for Dummies. The statement is not intended to reflect that BIB are dummies but to reflect that the said books are designed for simple translation. An Officer is not expected to have a full knowledge of law. This is the very reason why a good number of stations today have a duty CPS employee on standby.
Law is not for the Officers to have full knowledge of however, an Officer would be expected to have a good understanding of PACE given that the Act is a guideline and code of practice.
The Law is interpreted by the Court except that of in the Magistrates Court whereupon most of the dummies sitting on the bench don't realise what PACE stands for.
Law is not for the Officers to have full knowledge of however, an Officer would be expected to have a good understanding of PACE given that the Act is a guideline and code of practice.
The Law is interpreted by the Court except that of in the Magistrates Court whereupon most of the dummies sitting on the bench don't realise what PACE stands for.
Chrispy Porker said:
No-one is going to give a disc to a detainee
Presumably though, someone did think that offering them the info on a CD would be a solution? But the CD on its own is useless, the detainee would also need access to a computer in order to read the disc, so why not simply provide them with access to a computer which already has the contents of the most recently issued CD installed onto the hard drive, and keep the actual disc safely locked away elsewhere in the station?twister said:
Chrispy Porker said:
No-one is going to give a disc to a detainee
Presumably though, someone did think that offering them the info on a CD would be a solution? But the CD on its own is useless, the detainee would also need access to a computer in order to read the disc, so why not simply provide them with access to a computer which already has the contents of the most recently issued CD installed onto the hard drive, and keep the actual disc safely locked away elsewhere in the station?Sean
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