Failing to follow the direction of a blue arrow

[Raify]

A colleague of mine (honestly, he's sitting opposite me, p155 simmering) has received a love letter from Transport for London asking for £100. They must be trying to recoup money for the logo!

Anyway, the offence is ambiguous.

"Failing to follow the instruction of a blue arrow"

It's CCTV footage (well, 2 b/w stills from) of my colleague turning right on a traffic light at the corner of Whitechaple and Osborn in East London. The traffic light itself has a blue "straight on" arrow, like you'd find on a traffic island, but vertical. But there's no "no right turn" sign..... Weird.

Anyway, I thought I'd ask the PH collective opinion

[Sgt Bilko]

If you mean one of these:



On the traffic signal, then yes he is shafted. This means "Ahead Only".

[Sgt Bilko]

Further to that, if you get a Right facing arrow, at a junction, is it illegal to do a u-turn in the absence of any "No U-Turn" signs?

[TonyHetherington]

Yup, if it's in a circle (like the one above) then it's ordering you to do something. In this case, go straight on.

If it's in an "I" then it's merely Informing you.

He does indeed owe £100 and they are correct to fine him (morally is a different matter).

[Goochie]

TonyHetherington said:

Yup, if it's in a circle (like the one above) then it's ordering you to do something. In this case, go straight on.

If it's in an "I" then it's merely Informing you.

He does indeed owe £100 and they are correct to fine him (morally is a different matter).

Based on that, why are "one way street" arrows in rectangles ?

[TonyHetherington]

Because they're merely informing you that it is a one way street. For example, you get to a cross roads - the "ahead" is a one way street, but you don't HAVE to go ahead, you could turn left or right.

So, they would use the rectangular one way sign to Inform you that street is one way, rather than order you to take that direction.

Make sense?
T

[Sgt Bilko]

Back to the right turn one, if you turn right, you have complied with the order. Only that you have continued to turn right so now you are facing 180deg from your starting position?

[Raify]

TonyHetherington said:

Yup, if it's in a circle (like the one above) then it's ordering you to do something. In this case, go straight on.

If it's in an "I" then it's merely Informing you.

He does indeed owe £100 and they are correct to fine him (morally is a different matter).

Yes, it was one of those, underneath the red/amber/green lights.

Phew, I feel safer knowing that heinous crim is off the streets! Oh wait, he's not off the streets.

Well I feel safer knowing that CCTV prevented such a serious breach of the highway... oh wait, it didn't prevent it...

Uh...

Anyway, thanks for the advice! So glad it wasn't me, I'd be

[7db]

Sgt Bilko said:

Back to the right turn one, if you turn right, you have complied with the order. Only that you have continued to turn right so now you are facing 180deg from your starting position?

Nope. Do not pass Go.

[supermono]

Raify said:

It's CCTV footage

Just think. There's some faceless prick sitting all day at a TV screen watching for these "offences".

On a totally unrelated subject, I wonder why there's such a peak in numberplate offences these days?

SM

[Rob-C]

Sgt Bilko said:

If you mean one of these:



On the traffic signal, then yes he is shafted. This means "Ahead Only".

Shirley that is a white arrow!

[Flat in Fifth]

Where's streaky when you need him to come out with a "see the arrow! see the arrow! I didn't even see the Indians!" joke.

ah yes my coat....

[7db]

£100 is steep, given it's a £30 FPN + 0 pts if plod catch you. Best to get a friendly plod to ticket you for the offence and use the get-out on the TfL form that the incident is being deal with by Police action (as this prevents them from continuing).

[haggle]

me thinks its against the human rights act to use cctv for prosoction

[Goochie]

Rob-C said:

Sgt Bilko said:

If you mean one of these:



On the traffic signal, then yes he is shafted. This means "Ahead Only".

Shirley that is a white arrow!

Good point.

Write to them and say there was no "blue arrow" and ask them to prove that there was.

[Raify]

haggle said:

me thinks its against the human rights act to use cctv for prosoction

Impossible, according to the media, nearly every crime in the UK is solved with cameras. Jamie Theakston and Alistair Campbell would be out of a voice-over job and I would have nothing to watch late at night on Sky 3...

[madjules]

7db said:

£100 is steep, given it's a £30 FPN + 0 pts if plod catch you. Best to get a friendly plod to ticket you for the offence and use the get-out on the TfL form that the incident is being deal with by Police action (as this prevents them from continuing).

This really bothers me.

How can TFL fine you £100 for a traffic offence that’s a £30 fine if pursued by plod?

Can anyone please explain (seriously) how this is the case?

Thanks

[herewego]

Raify said:

TonyHetherington said:

Yup, if it's in a circle (like the one above) then it's ordering you to do something. In this case, go straight on.

If it's in an "I" then it's merely Informing you.

He does indeed owe £100 and they are correct to fine him (morally is a different matter).

Yes, it was one of those, underneath the red/amber/green lights.

Phew, I feel safer knowing that heinous crim is off the streets! Oh wait, he's not off the streets.

Well I feel safer knowing that CCTV prevented such a serious breach of the highway... oh wait, it didn't prevent it...

Uh...

Would we all be better off if nobody had to take any notice of roadsigns and just did our own thing?

Edited by herewego on Thursday 7th June 17:17

[Raify]

Goochie said:

Rob-C said:

Sgt Bilko said:

If you mean one of these:



On the traffic signal, then yes he is shafted. This means "Ahead Only".

Shirley that is a white arrow!

Good point.

Write to them and say there was no "blue arrow" and ask them to prove that there was.

I don't have the love letter here (back home already). I'd be surprised if they'd tripped up on semantics, I probably just typed out the offence wrong. Maybe it just said "arrow"

[vonhosen]

madjules said:

7db said:

£100 is steep, given it's a £30 FPN + 0 pts if plod catch you. Best to get a friendly plod to ticket you for the offence and use the get-out on the TfL form that the incident is being deal with by Police action (as this prevents them from continuing).

This really bothers me.

How can TFL fine you £100 for a traffic offence that’s a £30 fine if pursued by plod?

Can anyone please explain (seriously) how this is the case?

Thanks

Because it's not being treated as a criminal offence (FPN), it's being treated as a PCN. It's the gradual decriminalisation of traffic offences because the Police haven't got the resources to enforce them. The local authority therefore get the money from the PCN to fund the resources needed to do the enforcement.