RE: UK roads no longer the safest
RE: UK roads no longer the safest
Friday 15th June 2007

UK roads no longer the safest

More cameras, but no longer the safest roads



Britain has lost its claim to have the safest roads in Europe, according to the European Transport Safety Council's (ETSC) first Road Safety PIN Report.

We no longer occupy the top spot in the European road safety league as progress on reducing the number of road deaths has been slower than in other countries.

We now have a higher number of road deaths per million population than the Netherlands and Sweden.

The findings of the report were released at a conference on UK road safety organised by the ETSC and Loughborough University's Vehicle Safety Research Centre (VSRC).

The report shows that between 2001 and 2005 there was a 7 per cent reduction in the number of road deaths in the UK compared to a 25 per cent reduction in Sweden and the Netherlands and a 35 per cent drop in France.

The report arrives at a time when the latest figures confirming Britain as having the highest number of speed cameras in Europe was revealed in a Parliamentary written answer to Tory transport spokesman Owen Paterson.

Apparently, there are now 5,562 roadside speed cameras in Britain compared to 1,935 back in 2000. Over the same period, mobile speed traps have increased from just 173 to 2,373.

In spite of this, the most worrying statistic in the ETSC report is the two per cent rise in the UK of drink driving, which many see as the result of a lack of police presence on our roads.

The report goes on to say that the average British driving speed has dropped by 9 per cent on urban roads. There has been a 3 per cent reduction in the average speed on roads with a 70mph speed-limit, but roads where the top speed is 60mph have seen an 9 per cent increase in the average speed of vehicles.

Only in France, Belgium and Switzerland have speeds been cut on all types of road in recent years, notes the report.

Professor Richard Allsop, ETSC Board Member and Chairman of the PIN Programme, said: "Much road safety policy and practice in the UK is good, but these comparisons with our fellow-Europeans come as a wake-up call to anyone tempted to acquiesce in present levels of death and injury on our roads - perhaps especially those concerned with priorities for law-enforcement."

Professor Pete Thomas, from VSRC, said: "The UK has been a leader in road and vehicle safety for many years helping to set the standard for Europe."

"Progress in reducing road deaths has slowed and the UK has to develop more innovative solutions and apply them."

Robert Gifford, executive director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, said: "This objective analysis of the performance of the UK reminds us of how much more progress we need to make."

"We used to claim that we had the safest roads in Europe. That claim is no longer matched in reality. The UK clearly needs to do much more to reclaim its position at the top of the EU road safety league."

Road Safety Minister Stephen Ladyman said Britain has some of the safest roads in the world.

He said: "Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre, which I believe is the best indicator to use when drawing a comparison as it takes into account both the number of fatalities and level of passenger mobility, Britain is second only to Sweden.”

"We have been congratulated by the ETSC for reducing overall speeds on urban roads and continually improving seatbelt wearing rates.”

Yesterday it was revealed that the minister had written a letter to Police chief constables reprimanding them for not policing our roads enough.

 Commenting on the news, Paul Smith, founder of SafeSpeed.org.uk, said: "After 28 years of having the safest roads in Europe we have finally lost our crown."

"There's one reason and one reason only. We have had bad road safety policy since the early 1990s. At the centre of the bad policy are speed cameras and the oversimplified notion that 'slower is safer' - if only things were so simple!"

"An obsession with vehicle speeds has caused a gross neglect of road user quality - and road user quality is the true foundation of all road safety."

"Department for Transport policies have been based on dodgy statistics and false assumptions. No wonder they haven't worked. We need to scrap speed cameras to 'wash away' the layers of oversimplified thinking. Department for Transport must admit their mistakes and take full responsibility."

"Safe Speed's Scrap Speed Cameras Week will highlight the issues starting 24th June 2007."

Author
Discussion

Top Trump

Original Poster:

1,588 posts

252 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
Too much slow, dithering and panic-stricken driving in this country has made the roads unsafer.

MilnerR

8,273 posts

289 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
The safety camera partnerships win whatever these reports find. More death equals more cameras fewer deaths equal more cameras because they must be working. It's an insane situation that isn't going to stop whilst self-interested SCP employees need fines to pay the mortgage every month.

Flat in Fifth

48,938 posts

282 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
I do a lot of miles in Scandinavia, one way or another.

Sweden is cited as much safer roads per million of population and having made big improvements.

Some general observations.

Sweden population density is very low compared to UK. Likewise the roads have a low traffic density. It's possible to drive for extended times at night on main beam simply because there is no other traffic. Likewise cruise control can be engaged for long periods and not disengaged simply because there is nobody about.

On the other hand the adverse weather must have a negative effect, so all in all I'm not sure to what extent the two countries are directly comparable.

What is noticeable is the different attitude to road safety from the authorities.

eg Speed limits are by and large quite similar to UK, Sweden is in the process of reviewing the limits and actually is going to raise them.

Re. Blackspots or roads with high collision rates, the attitude is to engineer the problem out. eg SC road with high risk due to inappropriate overtaking then they build the EU project 2+1 DC with alternating central reserve. This would be a perfect solution for the infamous Stocksbridge bypass in S Yorks for example.

If the engineering solution involves a bypass or a new motorway then, blood and stomach pills, they build it. They do have the benefit of land and density of development on their side admittedly.

Yes they have scameras, not many mobiles though I watched a major operation a few weeks back on the motorway out from Stockholm towards the archipelago which was nicely positioned just after a change in the limit from 110 to 90. However they were not nabbing the 110'ers who had just failed to peg back to the lower limit, but those who were well illegal at 140 plus, and not that safe actually considering traffic density and hazards. But essentially, at least as I see it, there is not the out and out war on the motorist that there is here.

Just to repeat, if the limit is wroong and too low, they have the balls to say so and up the limit.

However I do note an increase in the lentilist speed kills lobby creeping into their media.

FiF

Goochie

5,802 posts

250 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
Obviously the increase ha snothing to do with the reduced number of Traffic Police. Cameras are great at catching dangerous drivers.

Mr Whippy

32,453 posts

272 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
Flat in Fifth said:
What is noticeable is the different attitude to road safety from the authorities.
North Yorks and Durham have the same kind of attitude too, and it works. (edit: Doh, N.Yorks *did* )

It's all about the money and jobs in my view. Saves £££ on proper policing, makes £££ from fines, and employs loads of people who might otherwise be dolers and adding to the unemployed list, much like alot of Labours jobsworth army!

Dave

Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 15th June 09:54

nicedude1976

2,685 posts

251 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
I never thought we have had safest road, death statistics alone are not enough (however important). Rubbish surface, mediocre signage - for instance lack of Give Way sign and only old hardly visible road markings are commonplace. Or 60 speed limit on a narrow county road when 30 is too fast...
How safe is that?

7db

6,060 posts

261 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
"Indeed when assessed on the basis of fatalities per passenger kilometre"

Seems like the right measure to me, although injury collisions per vehicle km might be an interesting measure too. Nice thing about fatalities is that they are fairly tightly defined.

Peter Ward

2,097 posts

287 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
nicedude1976 said:
...Or 60 speed limit on a narrow county road when 30 is too fast...
How safe is that?
The speed limit is a limit. If 60 is not safe then drive more slowly smile. NSL doesn't mean it's safe to drive at 60, it just means the limit is 60. Remember that the derestriction sign used to mean that there was no limit, so that it was up to the driver to chose the appropriate speed. The only thing that's changed is that the government tells you 60 is the maximum speed now, not that 60 is safe.

Unfortunately your reasoning is becoming commonplace now. I suggest it's because we all see limits being used to define safety, such that we now "know" that 30 is safe in towns, 20 is safe in 20 zones, 50 is safe across most of Oxfordshire, etc. In reality, safety is not defined by the speed limit. But because the government has focused on speed to the exclusion of almost all other matters in trying to reduce KSIs, it has given the message that only speed kills -- and by extension that sticking to the limit is the only thing you need to do to be safe.

TheKeyboardDemon

713 posts

238 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
I guess there are 2 ways to tackle road safety issues, 1 would address road safety and cut deaths or the other is to find a way to make more money. I wonder what other countries are doing to have such dramatic improvements over the UK and how much effort the UK authorities have put into investigating this? Maybe they could use some of the Scamera funds raised to look into this? I doubt they will though, not if there's a cost involved and of course a reduction in revenue as a result of this.

RacingPete

9,205 posts

235 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
As said in the book Freakonomics there could be a number of factors external to speed cameras, speeding and lack of police. How about looking at the influx of people into this country in recent years from countries that don't drive on the left or have a driving license exam which is different (better or worse) to this country but still have a valid license to drive here. Alternatively you could look at an increase in extreme rainstorms - is it me or does rain seem to be heavier than in recent years - or other alternative weather caused by the changing climate of the world which is causing more accidents.

boxedin - just thinking outside the box smile

MilnerR

8,273 posts

289 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
RacingPete said:
Alternatively you could look at an increase in extreme rainstorms - is it me or does rain seem to be heavier than in recent years - or other alternative weather caused by the changing climate of the world which is causing more accidents.

boxedin - just thinking outside the box smile
The influx of drivers not used to driving on the left seems like a possible factor, but the weather argument is a bit too far outside the box, we now have less ice and snow which should help the stats

RacingPete

9,205 posts

235 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
MilnerR said:
the weather argument is a bit too far outside the box, we now have less ice and snow which should help the stats
But when it snows not many people go out and drive as always warned to stay at home and only travel if necessary and people see that as a perceived risk and so do. When it rains more people drive as they don't want to walk and get wet, or don't perceive it as a danger compared to snow and don't drive appropriately for the conditions.

Anyone think I have lost site of that box????

Edited by RacingPete on Friday 15th June 10:44

MilnerR

8,273 posts

289 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
I was thinking of the hundreds of numpties that would end up in the hedge on a frosty morning due to them driving normally on unsalted ice-rink like roads, the number of frosty morning has gone down.


What box are we talking about again....

baggiebird

81 posts

235 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
I think it would be very interesting to split the statistics down further to look at for example car onwer drivers per km/company car drivers per km/motorcyclists per km, and so on. I perceive that there are a significant number of motorcycle accidents, but I do not know this for sure. The key risk areas need to be identified and action taken there. For example if drivers kept their distance on fast roads (2 second rule) that would be a good start. Additionally we need have to train young/new drivers better.

safespeed

2,983 posts

305 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
RacingPete said:
As said in the book Freakonomics there could be a number of factors external to speed cameras, speeding and lack of police. How about looking at the influx of people into this country in recent years from countries that don't drive on the left or have a driving license exam which is different (better or worse) to this country but still have a valid license to drive here. Alternatively you could look at an increase in extreme rainstorms - is it me or does rain seem to be heavier than in recent years - or other alternative weather caused by the changing climate of the world which is causing more accidents.

boxedin - just thinking outside the box smile
Here are some of the possible factors:

- growth of mobile phone driving
- growth of 4x4 ownership
- growth of 'boy racer' behaviour
- growth of drink drive
- growth of born again bikers
- growth of foreign drivers

Taken together, with high estimates, it's virtually impossible to get this lot to add up to more than about 300 lives per year.

but these factors have to be considered against a background of:

- we're putting safer cars on the roads every year
- we're continuing to improve road engineering (black spots and upgrades)
- we're continuing to improve at post-crash care and rescue
- pedestrian activity continues to decline
- traffic growth has never been slower

And taking these factors, with estimates based on past performance, road deaths should be at least 1,200 lives per year lower by now.

So even with these factors, we're still ~1,000 lives per year adrift. TRL studied road death trends and concluded that drivers must be getting worse.

It's policy that making them worse - I'm certain of it.

SplatSpeed

7,491 posts

282 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
the standard of driving these days is SH1T

whitney44

200 posts

261 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
Apart from 'de-skilling' driving by reducing safety thinking to an arbitrary number on a post, the general state of the roads is my big worry. Pockmarked, broken surfaces (especially at the edges) are inherently unsafe but you have some such as the Tameside (?) councillor who applaud the situation as helping to keep speeds down!
As long as this lowest common denominator thinking carries on, we will make no real progress on road safety............Now I'm depressed.

Lostusernamedamn

4,364 posts

237 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
With all those millions of drivers with points on their licence, the same drivers who are in the vast majority the statistically safer driver... banghead ... I was going to say "when will the authorities learn?..." but what's the point? I think they already know they're catching the wrong people by concentrating on speed, but they're raking in £millions while they're pretending to worry about safety - I'm sure that's all that matters to them...

Sgt^Roc

512 posts

280 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
Top Trump said:
Too much slow, dithering and panic-stricken driving in this country has made the roads unsafer.
Yep you dead right, the bias of running road policy with self financing schemes have not worked but it will not change anything, the big brother road charging idea is all part of this and nothing can stop it. When it finally gets here we will have paid for it in blood as well as money.

cen

593 posts

266 months

Friday 15th June 2007
quotequote all
The reality of the matter is quite simply that the Authorities have relied upon Cameras for far to long whilst, ignoring the issue of policeing the roads.

Yes camera's are a money making institution raking in some 225 million per year in revenues whilst the Traffic Officer has been replaced by the aforementioned machines.

However, the traffic officer is capable well sometimes wink of detecting other crimes such as dangerous driving, drink driving and other variants against road traffic law. Yes the standard of driving as dropped over recent years is that, because they can get away with it. Cameras cannot detect the type of crimes mentioned therefore, the police and authorities are guilty of professional neglect and not affording a duty of care. Who is going to charge the police and authorities for the offence.

We may very well see a positive responce to speed detection cameras at the end of this month whereupon the Grand Chamber in Strasburg are due to announce their verdict with O'Halloran v UK.

Maybe the loss of cameras or the lesser effect they will have will bring the traffic officer back to our roads.