Theoretical Flood Problem....
Discussion
What with all these floods around at the moment, and having driven through a couple of them in the Furby, I started thinking I was glad I wasn't in the Chimaera.
If one comes across a flood in your car that you know you can't make due to the depth of the water, you stop.
If however, there is traffic behind you that can traverse the flood, the Bib are directing traffic at this point, am I correct in assuming that Bib cannot force you to attempt the traverse (and damage your engine in the process)?
I'm thinking they would simply have to direct others around you if space allows and simply close the road if not.
The floods in Chesterfield made me think of it - huge queues, most cars able to make it through a deep flood, but the TVR wouldn't have stood a chance, but there wasn't any suitable place to pull off road to.
If one comes across a flood in your car that you know you can't make due to the depth of the water, you stop.
If however, there is traffic behind you that can traverse the flood, the Bib are directing traffic at this point, am I correct in assuming that Bib cannot force you to attempt the traverse (and damage your engine in the process)?
I'm thinking they would simply have to direct others around you if space allows and simply close the road if not.
The floods in Chesterfield made me think of it - huge queues, most cars able to make it through a deep flood, but the TVR wouldn't have stood a chance, but there wasn't any suitable place to pull off road to.
They will direct traffic around you provided that your own recovery is en route.
They wont stand around indefinately for you. They may close the road to allow you to turn but if you cant go anywhere other than forward they will recover the vehicle at your own expense provided that your own recovery is not on its way or will arrive in a reasonable time.
Bear in mind they can move your vehicle for you even if you refuse to drive it to prevent obstuction of the highway.
They wont stand around indefinately for you. They may close the road to allow you to turn but if you cant go anywhere other than forward they will recover the vehicle at your own expense provided that your own recovery is not on its way or will arrive in a reasonable time.
Bear in mind they can move your vehicle for you even if you refuse to drive it to prevent obstuction of the highway.
Edited by ^Slider^ on Monday 25th June 17:34
I know what you mean, but in the situation described, there is nowhere to turn round (DC), but traffic could be directed around.
What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
stackmonkey said:
I know what you mean, but in the situation described, there is nowhere to turn round (DC), but traffic could be directed around.
What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Ok,What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Provided recovery en-route then traffic directed around you.
No recovery means we will recover it at your expense.
No turn around points same applies, we recover if its quicker than your recovery. But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessments as he / she will need to justify what actions have been taken. We will request you move it, if you dont then we can arrest you and then move it anyway.
^Slider^ said:
stackmonkey said:
I know what you mean, but in the situation described, there is nowhere to turn round (DC), but traffic could be directed around.
What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Ok,What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Provided recovery en-route then traffic directed around you.
No recovery means we will recover it at your expense.
No turn around points same applies, we recover if its quicker than your recovery. But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessments as he / she will need to justify what actions have been taken. We will request you move it, if you dont then we can arrest you and then move it anyway.
What would I be arrested for?
I (theoretically) can't turn round, due to say a traffic jam, I can't go forwards without damaging car (and having to be recovered) and am therefore refusing to go forwards because of said damage potential.
Recovery seems obvious choice, but a choice between new engine/charged with offence seems a bit harsh.
Edited by stackmonkey on Monday 25th June 19:24
Yes.
Not helped of course by the actual 'roundabout' changing shape every few days.
As I went past on the 'dry' side, the other side was at least 18 inches under, more in places and they had blocked traffic from A61 northbound traffic from getting directly back onto the A61 northbound, forcing it up into town, creating huge queues.
It did create the situation though, as described and left me feeling fortunate that I wasn't in the Chim.
Plenty of other shallower floods around that the Chim would also have struggled with.
Not helped of course by the actual 'roundabout' changing shape every few days.
As I went past on the 'dry' side, the other side was at least 18 inches under, more in places and they had blocked traffic from A61 northbound traffic from getting directly back onto the A61 northbound, forcing it up into town, creating huge queues.
It did create the situation though, as described and left me feeling fortunate that I wasn't in the Chim.
Plenty of other shallower floods around that the Chim would also have struggled with.
stackmonkey said:
Yes.
Not helped of course by the actual 'roundabout' changing shape every few days.
As I went past on the 'dry' side, the other side was at least 18 inches under, more in places and they had blocked traffic from A61 northbound traffic from getting directly back onto the A61 northbound, forcing it up into town, creating huge queues.
It did create the situation though, as described and left me feeling fortunate that I wasn't in the Chim.
Plenty of other shallower floods around that the Chim would also have struggled with.
Like the one at the bottom of Hady Hill,under the bridge?Hopefully it'll dry up tomorrow.....Not helped of course by the actual 'roundabout' changing shape every few days.
As I went past on the 'dry' side, the other side was at least 18 inches under, more in places and they had blocked traffic from A61 northbound traffic from getting directly back onto the A61 northbound, forcing it up into town, creating huge queues.
It did create the situation though, as described and left me feeling fortunate that I wasn't in the Chim.
Plenty of other shallower floods around that the Chim would also have struggled with.
Apparently per the councils "it's all down to global warming!" 
It down to building anywhere/everywhere - even seizing green belt land in the 'burbs
Add inaedquate drains taking away the waste water from thousands of extra homes (at unrealistic price tags) plus poor maintenance of these low budget drains plus concrete/blocked paved areas all over the place = flood waters of epic Noah-like proportions.
But if you caught up in one - I don't think police can do anything other than close off the road und direct away to dafer places. Life come first so in worst scenario - car at mercy of flood und insurance claims. I check my policy to make sure nothing "iffy" about flood damage.
It down to building anywhere/everywhere - even seizing green belt land in the 'burbs
Add inaedquate drains taking away the waste water from thousands of extra homes (at unrealistic price tags
) plus poor maintenance of these low budget drains plus concrete/blocked paved areas all over the place = flood waters of epic Noah-like proportions.But if you caught up in one - I don't think police can do anything other than close off the road und direct away to dafer places. Life come first so in worst scenario - car at mercy of flood und insurance claims. I check my policy to make sure nothing "iffy" about flood damage.
stackmonkey said:
^Slider^ said:
stackmonkey said:
I know what you mean, but in the situation described, there is nowhere to turn round (DC), but traffic could be directed around.
What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Ok,What would happen on a single carriageway with no place to turn round?
Bib then faced with functioning car blocking further traffic and driver refusing to drive, or (potentially) forcing driver to continue and getting stuck, thereby also blocking road.
Provided recovery en-route then traffic directed around you.
No recovery means we will recover it at your expense.
No turn around points same applies, we recover if its quicker than your recovery. But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessments as he / she will need to justify what actions have been taken. We will request you move it, if you dont then we can arrest you and then move it anyway.
What would I be arrested for?
I (theoretically) can't turn round, due to say a traffic jam, I can't go forwards without damaging car (and having to be recovered) and am therefore refusing to go forwards because of said damage potential.
Recovery seems obvious choice, but a choice between new engine/charged with offence seems a bit harsh.
Edited by stackmonkey on Monday 25th June 19:24
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
^Slider said:
Obstruction of the highway.
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
The obstruction has to be wilful(The prosecution must prove that the obstruction was without lawful authority or lawful excuse) or unnecessary (was it an unreasonable use of the road in the circumstances?).As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
KenP said:
^Slider said:
Obstruction of the highway.
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
The obstruction has to be wilful(The prosecution must prove that the obstruction was without lawful authority or lawful excuse) or unnecessary (was it an unreasonable use of the road in the circumstances?).As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
^Slider^ said:
KenP said:
^Slider said:
Obstruction of the highway.
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
The obstruction has to be wilful(The prosecution must prove that the obstruction was without lawful authority or lawful excuse) or unnecessary (was it an unreasonable use of the road in the circumstances?).As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
(And I've let go the fact that I can't see where you mentioned obstructing the highway
)driverrob said:
Only marginally off topic: has anyone read their insurance policy to check under what circumstances your car would be covered against flood damage?
Yes. I am pleased to say Mad Doc & self appear to be covered. We live in Lake District - normally "wet". Our home on high ground but we may drive on roads prone to flood. We advise insurers of this. They quote accordingly You do then need to advise insurer of measure taken to mitigate damage - then negotiate with them as to best covering quote assuming worst scenario
You gets to some extent what you ask for. No ask a question - you get the "computer-speaky version "I think I try to say .. do not be shy or reticent about asking hard und pointed questions to get a more "bespoke" policy relating to need at price you negotiate to your budget
. You need a bit of plain speak/cheek/humour/silver tongue.. but it can be done with effort tigger1 said:
^Slider^ said:
KenP said:
^Slider said:
Obstruction of the highway.
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
The obstruction has to be wilful(The prosecution must prove that the obstruction was without lawful authority or lawful excuse) or unnecessary (was it an unreasonable use of the road in the circumstances?).As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
(And I've let go the fact that I can't see where you mentioned obstructing the highway
)I would not force nor expect anyone to drive through if damage could occur. If there is no other option avaliable i have said we would recover the car at his expense.
But if there is another option then i would expect that to be used, if he was to refuse then possible obstruction.
So in summary (as ive already said this)
If the vehicle cannot be moved from its position the we recover.
If it can be moved then it is moved by either the driver or we would move it and the driver risk obstruction.
HTH
Gareth
^Slider^ said:
tigger1 said:
^Slider^ said:
KenP said:
^Slider said:
Obstruction of the highway.
As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
The obstruction has to be wilful(The prosecution must prove that the obstruction was without lawful authority or lawful excuse) or unnecessary (was it an unreasonable use of the road in the circumstances?).As i did state!
But if we feel we can move it to a safe location without loss or damage then we will move it, it depends on lots of factors such as traffic flow etc, sometimes its just worth waiting 30 mins for recovery totally scenario based and depends on the officer on scenes assessment
(And I've let go the fact that I can't see where you mentioned obstructing the highway
)I would not force nor expect anyone to drive through if damage could occur. If there is no other option avaliable i have said we would recover the car at his expense.
But if there is another option then i would expect that to be used, if he was to refuse then possible obstruction.
So in summary (as ive already said this)
If the vehicle cannot be moved from its position the we recover.
If it can be moved then it is moved by either the driver or we would move it and the driver risk obstruction.
HTH
Gareth
Some of what happen was not "normal". I do not think "global warming" We have evidence of such pattern over the years after all.
But we have more urbanisation. Shallow drainage systems to cope. It all adds to a problem borne more of lifestyle than "global warming"
I admit that my post far from helpful to anyone facing direst straits. I must say to anyone in such trauma - my heart/prayers/bestest wishes/concerns & hope for happy outcome are with you.
I am a very compassionate/understanding human being. I do feel for those in crisis. I cannot make thing better for them. I can only post up that I do feel for them and wish them well anyway.
I do not think I can say otherwise.
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