Tuesday 27th May 2003

Ambulance Driver nicked for Speeding

Speeding tickets kill - ambulance driver in court for emergency transplant dash

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[JohnL]

[actech]

...and Hi-jackers get asylum! Justice hits a new low!

[soulpatch]

But emergencey service vehicles are exempt under the road traffic act are they not??!??!

dont tell me they are now turning on their own people to raise even MORE cash???

Wouldnt mind if it was a camera van that got done but ambulences i have much respect for!

[ATG]

don't think there's any kind of blanket exemption. Think half the problem is that the guidlines are a bit vague ... actually, that's not the problem at all. The guidelines were probably left wooly in order to allow police/emergency services to use a bit of sensible descretion. The problem comes down to planks with no common sense.

[simon5480]

Yep it’s true the linc's plod is nearly as headless as the Thames valley plod when it comes to traffic safety. I come from good old link’s and remember when they started putting the Fatality figures on signs by the road but when it when down one year they included the CAS figure the next time to look bad again, just goes to prove safety is not on their agenda just revenues and some poor who is genuinely attempting to save life is going to suffer.

[d_drinks]

Common sense obviously not in great supply within the Lincolnshire Police dept. To consider prosecuting this guy for doing his job in a marked vehicle with the required warnings in evidence i.e. blue flashing lights is madness, it’s no wonder that the police are losing the battle to gain public support when they allow charges like this to be made.

What will hear next? All emergency vehicles must maintain the posted speed limit, anyone exceeding this will be fined and face points on their licence. I doubt it so why blow this up and go after the guy. Had he stuck to the speed limit and the person requiring the transplant died, how awful would he have felt? Come on Lincolnshire Police get a grip on reality and stop being a bunch of

[JohnL]

d_drinks said: Had he stuck to the speed limit and the person requiring the transplant died, how awful would he have felt?

Yeah, but you can bet that'll happen, or something getting that way (OK I'll do 80, should be safe enough ...).

Now supposing the bloke loses his licence - a possibility having been driving over 100mph - he'd lose his job too, can't be an ambulance driver with no driving licence. Just have to hope that the judge has a bit of common sense, more than the CPS and the police between them anyway.

But if he does get a ban - then all the amulance drivers really will stick to the speed limit, they won't have a choice if they want to keep their jobs. Hmm, safety, yeah, right.

[Rushjob]

There is an exemption under Section 87 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
It actually covers ANY ( not neccesarily a Fire, Police or Ambulance owned one ) vehicle being used for Fire, Police or Ambulance purposes and exempts the driver from exceeding the speed limit if the observance of the limit in place would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion ( the gist of it anyway, I can't remember it word for word! ).
From what I've worked out, Lincs Police do not seem to think that carrying blood or organs for emergency use is use for Ambulance purposes!
An interesting standpoint!
The same driver was clocked on camera in Cambridgeshire later on the same run & they allowed the above exemption.

[madcop]

For those of you that are interested, I have posted my views on this under the thread 'Crazy'

I must say there are some pretty blinkered posts coming through on this though But I suppose I shouldn't really be surprised

[RobC]

This has to be a early April fools!

I can't believe that the police are prosecuting this guy! I mean FFS what's he supposed to do, take his time and hope the poor person waiting for the organ can survive? I know if I was the patient I'd want him there as quickly as possible! What next...ambulances not allowed to exceed the speed limit....! f-ing joke! Police have gone speed crazy, it is going to back fire soon....

[loaf]

Rushjob said: There is an exemption under Section 87 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.
It actually covers ANY ( not neccesarily a Fire, Police or Ambulance owned one ) vehicle being used for Fire, Police or Ambulance purposes and exempts the driver from exceeding the speed limit if the observance of the limit in place would be likely to hinder the use of the vehicle for the purpose for which it is being used on that occasion ( the gist of it anyway, I can't remember it word for word! ).

Close enough. It also covers Coastguard vehicles IIRC. However, it is not a blanket exemption and neither is it automatic - to claim the exemption the driver must be first charged with an offence and appear before a magistrate - who will decide whether the exemption is applicable. The officer will need to provide evidence that he was on a legitimate 'blue light' call, by providing the CAD record etc.

From what I've worked out, Lincs Police do not seem to think that carrying blood or organs for emergency use is use for Ambulance purposes!
An interesting standpoint!

This may not be the case. Life-saving call or not, exceeding the speed limit is an offence and the officer concerned must be prepared to justify his actions - it is not for the Police to decide what is and isn't an emergency, that is for the magistrate to decide.

The same driver was clocked on camera in Cambridgeshire later on the same run & they allowed the above exemption.

Not quite - they just didn't report him for summons, which is an entirely different thing. Without knowing the full details it's difficult to comment eitehr way, but the details we do know are reported by the tabloid press who, I'm sure you will agree, are well known for their accuracy of reporting as opposed to their unquenchable desire for a headline which will sell more papers/cause more uproar

[mad jock]

I have just been listening to Jeremy Vine on Radio 2 discussing this issue with some woman from BRAKE and an ambulance union rep. Cambridgeshire police seem to be more liberal in their approach, whereas Lincolnshire police want to prosecute.
I take it that no Lincolnshire police car will exceed the limit, EVER, unless they are carrying a dying person. I mean, chasing bank robbers, rushing to scenes of crime, etcetera, are NOT life threatening situations, are they?
A few years ago, one of the TV driving programmes showed the video footage from a Police car, (I believe it was Cambridgeshire) on an organ transplant delivery to central London. It was a liver, incidentally. The speeds that they were travelling at was well in excess of 100 mph, in daylight. The video was shown almost in it's entirety, about 30 minutes. It was a facinating display of professional driving skills, and the pig headedness of some members of the public. Not a mention was made of potential prosecution, yet all the evidence was there on a police video tape.
WHAT IS THE FCUKING DIFFERENCE?!

[Davel]

Had he driven dangerously or been in an accident then maybe he should be liable - but in an emergency and not causing any problem to anybody, then any charge should not even be considered. The policeman concerned with starting all this should be re-educated!

[james]

Great news! The next time a copper has to catch up with you to pull you over, tell him that you're making a citizens arrest, and do HIM for speeding

[fast westfield]

A whole new meaning to "Ambulance chasers"

Paul. [N.E.Lincs too close BTW]

[bettyswollox]

It wasn't the speed the Police were concerned about.... It was the fact the guy had his arse out the window at the time!!.....

[t1 pcs]

There was a time (when I was very young) when I used to fancy driving vehicles like this on blue lights (be it Police car, ambulance etc).

I now would absolutely hate to have to be the driver of one of these vehicles. Up for manslaughter charges if they have an accident, prosecuted for speeding etc etc.

I do get very cross with the police on some of these stop thief programs who drive along with hand held phones etc when chasing the thiefs in their fast cars then go to talk about road safety... hypocrytical... but I have loads of respect for the well trained professional police / ambulance / fire etc drivers who are very skilled.

This poor guy just trying to do his job.

Just my two penneth

[RCA]

Its not as if he was driving past a school at 3.30 in the afternoon!!!!, He was on the fcuking A1 !!!!!!! And in the early hours of the morning!!!

[cjrv8]

As ambulance drivers & paramedics have to pass the same advanced/pursuit driving courses as the police... shouldn't the poilice nic themselves everytime they break the limit????

[MEMSDesign]

james said: Great news! The next time a copper has to catch up with you to pull you over, tell him that you're making a citizens arrest, and do HIM for speeding

I thought citizens arrests could only be made for crimes carrying a maximum penalty of 8 years or above. I've probably got the number wrong, but it's something like that.