Wrong way on the motorway (hypothetical question)
Discussion
When ever you hear of a vehicle going the wrong way on the motorway the police seem to chase them (somehow) for quite a distance before it sometimes ends in tears, what I was wondering is why doesn't a truck driver take them out, If for example a 32 tonner was in lane 2 passing another truck and the villain was hammering it down the fast lane would a truck driver be done if he swung into lane 3 to block him and there was a fatal crash (the villain not the trucker).
I would like to think that if a truck driver had the chance to take him out instead of an innocent family being wiped out he would be a hero, wouldn't he?.
I know it's not something the police would advise a truck driver to do but I just wondered where he would stand legally.
I would like to think that if a truck driver had the chance to take him out instead of an innocent family being wiped out he would be a hero, wouldn't he?.
I know it's not something the police would advise a truck driver to do but I just wondered where he would stand legally.
Yes I suppose it would, If my family were killed by anybody driving the wrong way up the motorway and 16 truck drivers had swerved to miss the vehicle I'd be a bit annoyed, It's not a case of "Oh dear he doesn't know what he's doing, bless".
He could be 2 minutes away from wiping out 4 innocent people.
He could be 2 minutes away from wiping out 4 innocent people.
The majority of wrong-way drivers are elderly or drunk. The foremost seem to get lost mostly, the others are not capable of making sensible decisions.
The others are either on a suicide mission or running from the BiB for a particular reason.
Anyone deliberately taking the law in to their own hands and ends up causing a death, would probably end up on charges of causing death by dangerous driving. Probably. And lorry drivers swerving from Lane 1 to Lane 3 is a deliberate act. Anyone swerving to get out of the oncoming vehicles way, but still ending up hitting it, wouldn't be faulted - as long as they adhered to the advisory speed limit of 20mph.
The others are either on a suicide mission or running from the BiB for a particular reason.
Anyone deliberately taking the law in to their own hands and ends up causing a death, would probably end up on charges of causing death by dangerous driving. Probably. And lorry drivers swerving from Lane 1 to Lane 3 is a deliberate act. Anyone swerving to get out of the oncoming vehicles way, but still ending up hitting it, wouldn't be faulted - as long as they adhered to the advisory speed limit of 20mph.
ACPO Manual on Motorway Policing said:
10.4 OPPOSITE CARRIAGEWAY OR DIRECTION
Police vehicles must always remain on the correct carriageway for their direction of travel, and must never travel in the wrong direction following an offending vehicle. To drive in the wrong direction is a dangerous act. This is the case for police officers as well as the driver of the subject vehicle. Police officers are not exempt from the charge of dangerous driving. In addition, a police vehicle travelling with a subject vehicle on the wrong carriageway is just as likely to distract oncoming motorists as to warn them of the presence of the subject vehicle.
An offending vehicle must only be pursued from the correct carriageway. Progress should be made with minimum emergency lights as this is likely to distract drivers on the opposite carriageway. An audible warning can also be used.
Officers involved in this type of incident must request low speed matrix in both directions and consider the use of a suitable message displayed on the variable message sign (VMS).
Police vehicles must always remain on the correct carriageway for their direction of travel, and must never travel in the wrong direction following an offending vehicle. To drive in the wrong direction is a dangerous act. This is the case for police officers as well as the driver of the subject vehicle. Police officers are not exempt from the charge of dangerous driving. In addition, a police vehicle travelling with a subject vehicle on the wrong carriageway is just as likely to distract oncoming motorists as to warn them of the presence of the subject vehicle.
An offending vehicle must only be pursued from the correct carriageway. Progress should be made with minimum emergency lights as this is likely to distract drivers on the opposite carriageway. An audible warning can also be used.
Officers involved in this type of incident must request low speed matrix in both directions and consider the use of a suitable message displayed on the variable message sign (VMS).
Edited by Sgt Bilko on Thursday 19th July 15:50
Yung Man said:
Yes I suppose it would, If my family were killed by anybody driving the wrong way up the motorway and 16 truck drivers had swerved to miss the vehicle I'd be a bit annoyed, It's not a case of "Oh dear he doesn't know what he's doing, bless".
He could be 2 minutes away from wiping out 4 innocent people.
Maybe... but its all a but...He could be 2 minutes away from wiping out 4 innocent people.
Secondly you either have to be extremely brave or foolhardy to aim to cause a crash which will have a closing speed of 140mph or more!!!
Even the truck driver would have a serious chance of death in that situation.
I remember driving up from Southampton to Lancaster in February last year towing a big old Land Rover behind a Transit I had rented, I was in convoy with my mate and he was driving the same. We got just south of Preston at about 3.30am in really thick fog when all of a sudden all the matrix signs lit up warning us of oncoming vehicles.
We both slowed down to about 30 miles an hour expecting some lunatic to come hurtling out of the fog followed by a bevvy of police cars heading directly at us but nothing appeared.
It was quiet disconcerting nonetheless.
We both slowed down to about 30 miles an hour expecting some lunatic to come hurtling out of the fog followed by a bevvy of police cars heading directly at us but nothing appeared.
It was quiet disconcerting nonetheless.
Yung Man said:
When ever you hear of a vehicle going the wrong way on the motorway the police seem to chase them (somehow) for quite a distance before it sometimes ends in tears, what I was wondering is why doesn't a truck driver take them out, If for example a 32 tonner was in lane 2 passing another truck and the villain was hammering it down the fast lane would a truck driver be done if he swung into lane 3 to block him and there was a fatal crash (the villain not the trucker).
I would like to think that if a truck driver had the chance to take him out instead of an innocent family being wiped out he would be a hero, wouldn't he?.
I know it's not something the police would advise a truck driver to do but I just wondered where he would stand legally.
I would like to think that if a truck driver had the chance to take him out instead of an innocent family being wiped out he would be a hero, wouldn't he?.
I know it's not something the police would advise a truck driver to do but I just wondered where he would stand legally.
Maverick73 said:
What a strange thing to be wondering.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/6998191.stmStill wondering......?
Edited by Yung Man on Tuesday 18th September 12:49
Yung Man said:
Maverick73 said:
What a strange thing to be wondering.....
Still wondering......?Into about my second week of serious driving (I'd passed my test about 5 years beforehand, but didn't have a car), I was travelling down the A27, and there was someone coming at me on the wrong side of the road in a Transit.
Luckily I was able to avoid him (which was lucky because it was my first kit car - which wasn't the worlds' strongest vehicle on the road [not my fault; it was the original builder's fault]), but the car behind me didn't.
I heard that the driver of the van refused to give a breath test - but no-one was killed.
It was quite odd, because I really thought I was seeing things to start off with, but at a closing speed of around 130mph, there wasn't really a lot of time to worry about it.
Luckily I was able to avoid him (which was lucky because it was my first kit car - which wasn't the worlds' strongest vehicle on the road [not my fault; it was the original builder's fault]), but the car behind me didn't.
I heard that the driver of the van refused to give a breath test - but no-one was killed.
It was quite odd, because I really thought I was seeing things to start off with, but at a closing speed of around 130mph, there wasn't really a lot of time to worry about it.
GreenV8S said:
Yung Man said:
Maverick73 said:
What a strange thing to be wondering.....
Still wondering......?How can the death of the perpetrater be the "worst possible outcome", try saying that to the family of the old couple in the Volvo on the M4, I would not suggest doing it in an equal sized car but weighing up the odds IMO the risk is worth it, I have seen the results of a artic hitting a 4 door Toyota Avensis, it demolished everything up to the back seat and I mean everything.
Yung Man - you are suggesting that the state would recommend the death penalty for driving the wrong way up the carriageway, with judge, jury and executioner roles performed by a truck driver at great personal risk to himself.
Your analogy with the bank robber is good, since I don't think the BiBs can shoot armed robbers out of hand. They have to believe that their is a real imminent threat to others or their own lives and that shooting the guy is the only option. (e.g. creeping up behind him and shooting him in the back of the head while he is asking the cashier to hand the money over is generally frowned on I believe.)
Someone driving the wrong way, MAY not cause an accident. A guaranteed accident is surely worse than the possibility of no accident?
Your analogy with the bank robber is good, since I don't think the BiBs can shoot armed robbers out of hand. They have to believe that their is a real imminent threat to others or their own lives and that shooting the guy is the only option. (e.g. creeping up behind him and shooting him in the back of the head while he is asking the cashier to hand the money over is generally frowned on I believe.)
Someone driving the wrong way, MAY not cause an accident. A guaranteed accident is surely worse than the possibility of no accident?
Yung Man said:
If the driver of a very large vehicle puts it in the path of someone travelling against the flow of traffic on a motorway he is not "deliberately causing a high speed crash" he is preventing one
I don't see how, since it seems to me that this will inevitably cause a head on collision at high closing speed. If it *doesn't* cause a collision then what have you achieved?Edited by GreenV8S on Tuesday 18th September 20:03
GreenV8S said:
Yung Man said:
If the driver of a very large vehicle puts it in the path of someone travelling against the flow of traffic on a motorway he is not "deliberately causing a high speed crash" he is preventing one[quote]
I don't see how, since it seems to me that this will inevitably cause a head on collision at high closing speed. If it *doesn't* cause a collision then what have you achieved?
I don't see how, since it seems to me that this will inevitably cause a head on collision at high closing speed. If it *doesn't* cause a collision then what have you achieved?
You are doing it again.
walm said:
Someone driving the wrong way, MAY not cause an accident. A guaranteed accident is surely worse than the possibility of no accident?
Let's just clarify that a little bit:2 options:
1. Do nothing. Result - Possible accident killing criminal and innocent family.
2. Truck takes out criminal. Result - Guaranteed accident killing criminal.
Therefore the guaranteed accident will at least mean that no innocent's are harmed. Hence it is not "surely worse". IMO the police shoult instruct the truck to take the criminal out, thereby saving innocents from potential harm.
This is exactly the same as shooting an armed robber before he's shot anyone. The choice is between: 1. Robber possibly shoots first killing innocents before police are forced to take him out. 2. Police shoot first, saving innocents from potential harm.
It is not the same as saying "lets have the death penalty with trucker as judge jury and exocutioner". It's the same as the police cheif making the descision to shoot the robber and instructing the sniper to do so. (I.e. Plod radio and tell trucker to take crim out.)
Edited by mrmr96 on Tuesday 18th September 17:39
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