advice please...
Discussion
work colleague has been issued with an NIP - scamera van. this was in Feb of this year.
Before I go any further I should state that he moved address when the BIB would have sent the letter out but he says he has all his post even after he moved and did not receive anything in the form of an NIP.
As I understand it they have 14 days plus postage 'for you to receive the NIP'. Is this true...?
or, is it 14 days for them to send out/issue it?
My colleague wrote to them - they wrote back and are stating...
'I would advise you that the NIP must be sent to the registered owner/keeper of a vehilce, as per the DVLA Swansea records, within such time that in the ordinary course of the post it will reach its destination within 14 days of the date of the alleged offence. The initial NIP was issued to the keeper of the vehicle, as per the DVLA Swansea ecords, on the 28 February 2007 and a reminder was later issued on 4 April. No reponse was received by this office to either or the subsequent correspondence'
We have therefore complied with our legal requirement by notifying the registered keeper within 14 days.'
Followed by threats of court hearing, increased fine and points, etc...
Have they complied - my colleague swears he did not receive anything - if the BIB are relying on 'ordinary post' that is anything but reliable, how can they prove that he received the NIP?
Hence my original question - does the 14 day rule apply to 'issuing' or 'actually receiving' the NIP? and if its the latter then how do they prove it?
Before I go any further I should state that he moved address when the BIB would have sent the letter out but he says he has all his post even after he moved and did not receive anything in the form of an NIP.
As I understand it they have 14 days plus postage 'for you to receive the NIP'. Is this true...?
or, is it 14 days for them to send out/issue it?
My colleague wrote to them - they wrote back and are stating...
'I would advise you that the NIP must be sent to the registered owner/keeper of a vehilce, as per the DVLA Swansea records, within such time that in the ordinary course of the post it will reach its destination within 14 days of the date of the alleged offence. The initial NIP was issued to the keeper of the vehicle, as per the DVLA Swansea ecords, on the 28 February 2007 and a reminder was later issued on 4 April. No reponse was received by this office to either or the subsequent correspondence'
We have therefore complied with our legal requirement by notifying the registered keeper within 14 days.'
Followed by threats of court hearing, increased fine and points, etc...
Have they complied - my colleague swears he did not receive anything - if the BIB are relying on 'ordinary post' that is anything but reliable, how can they prove that he received the NIP?
Hence my original question - does the 14 day rule apply to 'issuing' or 'actually receiving' the NIP? and if its the latter then how do they prove it?
It's 14 days from the offence. The onus is on the recipient proving they didnt receive it, rather than the SCP proving they sent it
A confirmation of postal forwarding from Royal Mail or something could be used, but your mate still has to confirm who was driving. I'm guessing as it's so long ago he/she is heading for a summons anyway by now
A confirmation of postal forwarding from Royal Mail or something could be used, but your mate still has to confirm who was driving. I'm guessing as it's so long ago he/she is heading for a summons anyway by now
[quote=andy_quantum]It's 14 days from the offence. The onus is on the recipient proving they didnt receive it, rather than the SCP proving they sent it
A confirmation of postal forwarding from Royal Mail or something could be used, but your mate still has to confirm who was driving. I'm guessing as it's so long ago he/she is heading for a summons anyway by now
...Er...How can you prove you didnt receive something...or is that the point?
A confirmation of postal forwarding from Royal Mail or something could be used, but your mate still has to confirm who was driving. I'm guessing as it's so long ago he/she is heading for a summons anyway by now
...Er...How can you prove you didnt receive something...or is that the point?
I dont know if there's any truth in it, but thats the conclusion I came to. Showing you'd taken reasonable steps to inform people of a change of address, including something like a confirmation of post forwarding would go well to proving other mail had arrived, just not the NIP.
Of course, that could go the other way, and if everything else is getting through then it's a bit suspect
But the problem of a NIP being served is still there!
ETA - if your colleague wrote to them, then he/she was writing after receiving *something* ??
Of course, that could go the other way, and if everything else is getting through then it's a bit suspect
But the problem of a NIP being served is still there!
ETA - if your colleague wrote to them, then he/she was writing after receiving *something* ??
Edited by andy_quantum on Monday 23 July 13:22
ETA - if your colleague wrote to them, then he/she was writing after receiving *something* ??
He has corresponded with them after receiving a NIP sent to his new address some 3 or 4 months after the alleged offence but swears nothing turned up at his previous address.
Sounds like 3 points and fine purely on the basis that the onus is on him (and presumably us, the public in similar circumstances?) to prove that he has not recevied the NIP...and how do you do that?
Is does not sound fair that NIPs are sent out via an unreliable method and it is assumed that they always arrive?
What if a NIP arrives...you can tell because of the return address?...you keep hold of it for a fortnight...put it back in the post stating 'posted to wrong address - return to sender'...you then receive a re-sent NIP that will be after the 14 day period and that, theoretically, is the first you have heard of the matter. You then reply stating 'nothing doing, as the 14 day period has expired' and the BIB are too late?
Not that I am suggessting anyone does this...just wondering what the outcome would be?
He has corresponded with them after receiving a NIP sent to his new address some 3 or 4 months after the alleged offence but swears nothing turned up at his previous address.
Sounds like 3 points and fine purely on the basis that the onus is on him (and presumably us, the public in similar circumstances?) to prove that he has not recevied the NIP...and how do you do that?
Is does not sound fair that NIPs are sent out via an unreliable method and it is assumed that they always arrive?
What if a NIP arrives...you can tell because of the return address?...you keep hold of it for a fortnight...put it back in the post stating 'posted to wrong address - return to sender'...you then receive a re-sent NIP that will be after the 14 day period and that, theoretically, is the first you have heard of the matter. You then reply stating 'nothing doing, as the 14 day period has expired' and the BIB are too late?
Not that I am suggessting anyone does this...just wondering what the outcome would be?
As above if sent out so that it is received within 14 days of the offence (14days - offence date doesn't count) by Reg Post, Rec Del or first class post then it is deemed to have been served if sent to the last known address.
In this case Plod will have received the old address from DVLA records of Reg Keeper before DVLA were notified of change so service held to be good.
The fact that Notice sent shall be deemed to have been complied with unless and to the comntrary is proved.
dvd
In this case Plod will have received the old address from DVLA records of Reg Keeper before DVLA were notified of change so service held to be good.
The fact that Notice sent shall be deemed to have been complied with unless and to the comntrary is proved.
dvd
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