A sense of disgust with the Police
Discussion
Had a chat with a mate of mine last night he was saying how he always used to stand up for the police but recent experiences made him realise that the whole system has become a joke.
Surprising i felt from a middle aged, middle class guy who has worked all his life, even more surprising is that the guy in question has been a serving police officer all his working life.
He was based in a small town and works on his own most of the time , there is only a small team of officers , the powers that be had noticed that when he was on duty on Friday and Saturday nights he rarely made an arrest for public order or drunkeness whereas the other officers often did.
Unlike the other officers, if available at chucking out time he would park his car on the high street or near the kebab van and chat to the locals, many he knew for various reasons so he fostered this relationship, the result was next to no trouble when he was around, his presence was sufficient to deter drunken nonsense, no doubt the fact he knew most of them helped but that was something he had worked at. His "managers" felt that it would be better to respond to reports of trouble and then make arrests rather than to prevent the trouble in the first place. He was told time spent actually preventing trouble doesnt show in the stats.
Another case he mentioned was a domestic, the lady in question was going through a difficult breakup with her boyfriend , he had been verbally abusive in the past but never violent, she phoned the Police to say that her solicitor had sent the boyfriend a letter regarding some money he owned and that he "may" come around her house and cause trouble , a "heads up" if you like.
He was told by his inspector to pop around when on his travels and check the lady was ok, which he did leaving the lady his direct number if she needed him. When his duty finished he was called to see his inspector and asked to explain why he hadnt arrested the boyfriend as the "heads up" call had been logged as a domestic and that the boyfriend should have been arrested , despite having done nothing wrong and not having any contact with his ex-girlfriend , in fact there was no way to know if he had even received the solicitors letter.
He was also recently told to arrest a 14yr old boy for criminal damage , the boys crime was to borrow his mates bike (with permission) but when he brought it back one of the tyres was punctured so the parents insisted charges were brought.
I really hope he has just ended up with a bad manager , he seeem to feel not and thats just the way things are going. If the decent "proper" bobbies feel like this what hope does the Police really
have.
Surprising i felt from a middle aged, middle class guy who has worked all his life, even more surprising is that the guy in question has been a serving police officer all his working life.
He was based in a small town and works on his own most of the time , there is only a small team of officers , the powers that be had noticed that when he was on duty on Friday and Saturday nights he rarely made an arrest for public order or drunkeness whereas the other officers often did.
Unlike the other officers, if available at chucking out time he would park his car on the high street or near the kebab van and chat to the locals, many he knew for various reasons so he fostered this relationship, the result was next to no trouble when he was around, his presence was sufficient to deter drunken nonsense, no doubt the fact he knew most of them helped but that was something he had worked at. His "managers" felt that it would be better to respond to reports of trouble and then make arrests rather than to prevent the trouble in the first place. He was told time spent actually preventing trouble doesnt show in the stats.
Another case he mentioned was a domestic, the lady in question was going through a difficult breakup with her boyfriend , he had been verbally abusive in the past but never violent, she phoned the Police to say that her solicitor had sent the boyfriend a letter regarding some money he owned and that he "may" come around her house and cause trouble , a "heads up" if you like.
He was told by his inspector to pop around when on his travels and check the lady was ok, which he did leaving the lady his direct number if she needed him. When his duty finished he was called to see his inspector and asked to explain why he hadnt arrested the boyfriend as the "heads up" call had been logged as a domestic and that the boyfriend should have been arrested , despite having done nothing wrong and not having any contact with his ex-girlfriend , in fact there was no way to know if he had even received the solicitors letter.
He was also recently told to arrest a 14yr old boy for criminal damage , the boys crime was to borrow his mates bike (with permission) but when he brought it back one of the tyres was punctured so the parents insisted charges were brought.
I really hope he has just ended up with a bad manager , he seeem to feel not and thats just the way things are going. If the decent "proper" bobbies feel like this what hope does the Police really
have.
Apache said:
Hopefully someone will realise that stats and figures are secondary to actual policing
The government is only interested in stats and figures, and not what is really happening. The stats can be massaged to produce the desired outcome. Just look at health service and education. bobt said:
Apache said:
Hopefully someone will realise that stats and figures are secondary to actual policing
The government is only interested in stats and figures, and not what is really happening. The stats can be massaged to produce the desired outcome. Just look at health service and education. I feel very sorry for the Police when I hear reports such as the OP, I am amazed morale isn't through the floor, smacking into Australia...
Jasandjules said:
bobt said:
Apache said:
Hopefully someone will realise that stats and figures are secondary to actual policing
The government is only interested in stats and figures, and not what is really happening. The stats can be massaged to produce the desired outcome. Just look at health service and education. I feel very sorry for the Police when I hear reports such as the OP, I am amazed morale isn't through the floor, smacking into Australia...
job satisfactionBut they not the only ones. We have teachers resorting to "cheating" to meet "targets of artificial exam successes" when proof of pudding leads to watered down degree courses - followed by similarly waterings down of professional exams too.
For proof - look at the rubric/questions set. They radically different with past one requiring understanding of specialism whilst current lead to correct answers
Even if you not a "specialist" - you could pass it. I passed an Acccountancy exam one day when surfing the net. I have a business sense. I chat to family who are accountants. Their "chatty info in party mood" apparently sufficient to be "part qualified" in this profession (It was multiple choice - easy peasy More like a test for 16 year olds than Post grad trainees ) We also have targets set in NHS. These also equally misleading.
You still wait to see a doctor. You still have problem making appointment to see GP. Nothing change only they count registering presence with "Triage Nurse" - then waiting or announcing presence at GP surgery to receptionist as "being seen by someone in charge" The public ain't so stupid. Or at least those who had an education as opposed to an "edecayshun" thrice over
I can go on for pages over this on my soapbox. Your eyes would mist. 
Jasandjules said:
I am amazed morale isn't through the floor, smacking into Australia...
It is and has been for some time.My force recently carried out a 'staff satisfaction' survey and the results were hilarious. Percent of PC's who trust the decisions of senior staff? 4.3%. Percent of Chief Inspectors who did? 100%
A case of those wanting to climb the ladder sucking up and making the current culture worse?
Job is fooked...
FishFace said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What offence did you arrest him for? The most tenuous use of a prevent BOP? No one can force you to make an arrest. You're the one who has to justify it in relation to SOCAP with reasonable suspicion based on objective fact.
You need to challenge such a policy as it has serious legal implications for you and your force. Sounds like positive action is being misinterpreted.
in search of a K in twilight of their "careers" I think it take a brave rank & file cop to actually speak out these days. We have had examples of BiB being taken to task by "Nanny in charge" for daring to post up a normal bloke opinion on t'internet in the past.
But we are paying for BiB to be trained once selected. This ist a profession. Like any other profession - it require ability to use the training/knowledge of their specialism (this case "what constitute breaking law to warrant some action or show some "professional discretion if infringement ist not worth the red tape und rather minor with the person being "chastened" by their presence/sharper words
) That what expected - not asking someone not even present "what shall I do?" What next?
Asking them what they should have for their supper? I think we should sack the "manager". Go for the common sense again
WildCat said:
FishFace said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What offence did you arrest him for? The most tenuous use of a prevent BOP? No one can force you to make an arrest. You're the one who has to justify it in relation to SOCAP with reasonable suspicion based on objective fact.
You need to challenge such a policy as it has serious legal implications for you and your force. Sounds like positive action is being misinterpreted.
in search of a K in twilight of their "careers" I think it take a brave rank & file cop to actually speak out these days. We have had examples of BiB being taken to task by "Nanny in charge" for daring to post up a normal bloke opinion on t'internet in the past.
But we are paying for BiB to be trained once selected. This ist a profession. Like any other profession - it require ability to use the training/knowledge of their specialism (this case "what constitute breaking law to warrant some action or show some "professional discretion if infringement ist not worth the red tape und rather minor with the person being "chastened" by their presence/sharper words
) That what expected - not asking someone not even present "what shall I do?" What next?
Asking them what they should have for their supper? I think we should sack the "manager". Go for the common sense again
We can't trust them to do that, what if they abuse them ?
[tongue firmly in cheek mode]Use of Sec 59
[/tongue firmly in cheek mode]
vonhosen said:
WildCat said:
FishFace said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
What offence did you arrest him for? The most tenuous use of a prevent BOP? No one can force you to make an arrest. You're the one who has to justify it in relation to SOCAP with reasonable suspicion based on objective fact.
You need to challenge such a policy as it has serious legal implications for you and your force. Sounds like positive action is being misinterpreted.
in search of a K in twilight of their "careers" I think it take a brave rank & file cop to actually speak out these days. We have had examples of BiB being taken to task by "Nanny in charge" for daring to post up a normal bloke opinion on t'internet in the past.
But we are paying for BiB to be trained once selected. This ist a profession. Like any other profession - it require ability to use the training/knowledge of their specialism (this case "what constitute breaking law to warrant some action or show some "professional discretion if infringement ist not worth the red tape und rather minor with the person being "chastened" by their presence/sharper words
) That what expected - not asking someone not even present "what shall I do?" What next?
Asking them what they should have for their supper? I think we should sack the "manager". Go for the common sense again
We can't trust them to do that, what if they abuse them ?
[tongue firmly in cheek mode]Use of Sec 59
[/tongue firmly in cheek mode]
Well - if you recruit right calibre from start
I would be rather good at this 
of course (tongue in cheek of course - but I think recruitment should weed out the "power crazed" )Edited cos of mega sized typo
ops:Edited by WildCat on Saturday 28th July 19:02
Davel said:
I wonder just how many serving Police officers share the same frustration.
It must be a bloody difficult job when those above you seem hell bent on ruining the publics' perception of the Police.
Not at all fair on the BiB that you meet face to face.
Like the latest addition to the Inspector Gadget BlogIt must be a bloody difficult job when those above you seem hell bent on ruining the publics' perception of the Police.
Not at all fair on the BiB that you meet face to face.
GreenV8S said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Now I'm picturing a BiB at the scene of a dispute on the phone to an indian call center going through the usual support script. Press 2 if you are being, or have been, stabbed,
Press 3769402854##365-971-576840865-7 if you require back up."
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