Offensive Weapons in the home
Discussion
Following the "which torch" topic i was just reading over in the P&P, i wondered if you BiB guys might answer me a question.
There have recently been a spate of burgalries in my area (mainly on the Chav estate around the corner). What would be the best thing to keep under the bed to use in self defence/ as a deterrant should the unthinkable happen during the night?
Obviously a flick knife or baseball bat is going to raise some questions with the beak, but, as suggested, would a maglite or something similar be classed as an offensive weapon?
Just pondering what the law is and how it is applied really...
There have recently been a spate of burgalries in my area (mainly on the Chav estate around the corner). What would be the best thing to keep under the bed to use in self defence/ as a deterrant should the unthinkable happen during the night?
Obviously a flick knife or baseball bat is going to raise some questions with the beak, but, as suggested, would a maglite or something similar be classed as an offensive weapon?
Just pondering what the law is and how it is applied really...
you'd need something small and heavy - a golf club (Sand Wedge - more mass) or cricket bat is too unwieldy to swing in a corridor/room, so something like a maglite (for power cuts) should do the trick nicely - harder to explain why you kept a set of knives or nunchuks under the bed...
An offensive weapon is anything made, adapted or intended for causing harm. That is a very wide definition and depending on a person's mens rea (state of mind), could make almost anything an offensive weapon.
I actually dealt with someone for possession of a rolling-pin the other day. Now, a rolling-pin isn't made to cause harm, nor had this one been adapted to cause harm. However, the lad who had it in his possession had taken it out with him whilst he was drunk, and tucked it into the back of his trousers in case he was attacked (there had been an ongoing local feud). Under those circumstances, he intended to use the rolling pin for his own protection, and it therefore fell within the definition of an offensive weapon. He received a caution for the offence.
A Maglite, therefore, although made as a torch and not having been adapted to cause harm, could still be an offensive weapon if someone takes it out with the intention of using it as such.
If, however, you were in bed and heard someone breaking in, and you then went downstairs with a maglite to light your way, you've not formed any intent. If you then used it instinctively to defend yourself from attack, it's unlikely you'd be criticised.
Having said all that, possession of an offensive weapon is an offence you can only commit in a public place, not a private one.
I actually dealt with someone for possession of a rolling-pin the other day. Now, a rolling-pin isn't made to cause harm, nor had this one been adapted to cause harm. However, the lad who had it in his possession had taken it out with him whilst he was drunk, and tucked it into the back of his trousers in case he was attacked (there had been an ongoing local feud). Under those circumstances, he intended to use the rolling pin for his own protection, and it therefore fell within the definition of an offensive weapon. He received a caution for the offence.
A Maglite, therefore, although made as a torch and not having been adapted to cause harm, could still be an offensive weapon if someone takes it out with the intention of using it as such.
If, however, you were in bed and heard someone breaking in, and you then went downstairs with a maglite to light your way, you've not formed any intent. If you then used it instinctively to defend yourself from attack, it's unlikely you'd be criticised.
Having said all that, possession of an offensive weapon is an offence you can only commit in a public place, not a private one.
R_U_LOCAL said:
An offensive weapon is anything made, adapted or intended for causing harm. That is a very wide definition and depending on a person's mens rea (state of mind), could make almost anything an offensive weapon.
I actually dealt with someone for possession of a rolling-pin the other day. Now, a rolling-pin isn't made to cause harm, nor had this one been adapted to cause harm. However, the lad who had it in his possession had taken it out with him whilst he was drunk, and tucked it into the back of his trousers in case he was attacked (there had been an ongoing local feud). Under those circumstances, he intended to use the rolling pin for his own protection, and it therefore fell within the definition of an offensive weapon. He received a caution for the offence.
A Maglite, therefore, although made as a torch and not having been adapted to cause harm, could still be an offensive weapon if someone takes it out with the intention of using it as such.
If, however, you were in bed and heard someone breaking in, and you then went downstairs with a maglite to light your way, you've not formed any intent. If you then used it instinctively to defend yourself from attack, it's unlikely you'd be criticised.
Having said all that, possession of an offensive weapon is an offence you can only commit in a public place, not a private one.
Thanks, as normal, for the thorough response. I did not realise that you had to take a "weapon" outside for it to become "offensive". (There's a dirty joke in there somewhere).I actually dealt with someone for possession of a rolling-pin the other day. Now, a rolling-pin isn't made to cause harm, nor had this one been adapted to cause harm. However, the lad who had it in his possession had taken it out with him whilst he was drunk, and tucked it into the back of his trousers in case he was attacked (there had been an ongoing local feud). Under those circumstances, he intended to use the rolling pin for his own protection, and it therefore fell within the definition of an offensive weapon. He received a caution for the offence.
A Maglite, therefore, although made as a torch and not having been adapted to cause harm, could still be an offensive weapon if someone takes it out with the intention of using it as such.
If, however, you were in bed and heard someone breaking in, and you then went downstairs with a maglite to light your way, you've not formed any intent. If you then used it instinctively to defend yourself from attack, it's unlikely you'd be criticised.
Having said all that, possession of an offensive weapon is an offence you can only commit in a public place, not a private one.
So looks like it's best to have a torch in the bedroom to light my way down the stairs as a pose to a cricket bat or such like!
Cheers for helping me with my ponderings.
eltax91 said:
Thanks, as normal, for the thorough response. I did not realise that you had to take a "weapon" outside for it to become "offensive". (There's a dirty joke in there somewhere).
So looks like it's best to have a torch in the bedroom to light my way down the stairs as a pose to a cricket bat or such like!
Cheers for helping me with my ponderings.
No problem.So looks like it's best to have a torch in the bedroom to light my way down the stairs as a pose to a cricket bat or such like!
Cheers for helping me with my ponderings.
I recommend one of these...
http://www.surplusstore.co.uk/catalog/product_info...
As it's not overly large, but is comfortingly heavy and not too difficult to swing when you're *ahem* sweeping the beam around.
And some bedtime reading...
http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.ph...
I think that in todays climate in Britain you have two options when being attacked or robbed:-
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
skymaster said:
I think that in todays climate in Britain you have two options when being attacked or robbed:-
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
Thats not strictly true. 1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
It is all about intent. Keeping a Maglite under the bed to banjo a burglar with IS an offence. However, in order to prosecute, it must be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that that is the reason you had it, which is highly unlikely.
A weapon, ie. something designed for this purpose, could still legally be used for self defence. An example could be if you were being attacked and picked up your grandads commando knife from the war, which was on display on your mantlepiece.
Guns, I believe, even if legally owned are not allowed to be used as self defence, no matter what the circumstances are.
Also what must be considered is the option to retreat. You must give your attacker/burglar this. That's where Tony Bennett came unstuck. He shot a burglar while he was running away, which although I believe no right minded person would feel was wrong, he still broke the law.
A weapon, ie. something designed for this purpose, could still legally be used for self defence. An example could be if you were being attacked and picked up your grandads commando knife from the war, which was on display on your mantlepiece.
Guns, I believe, even if legally owned are not allowed to be used as self defence, no matter what the circumstances are.
Also what must be considered is the option to retreat. You must give your attacker/burglar this. That's where Tony Bennett came unstuck. He shot a burglar while he was running away, which although I believe no right minded person would feel was wrong, he still broke the law.
It is all about intent. Keeping a Maglite under the bed to banjo a burglar with IS an offence. However, in order to prosecute, it must be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that that is the reason you had it, which is highly unlikely.
A weapon, ie. something designed for this purpose, could still legally be used for self defence. An example could be if you were being attacked and picked up your grandads commando knife from the war, which was on display on your mantlepiece.
Guns, I believe, even if legally owned are not allowed to be used as self defence, no matter what the circumstances are.
Also what must be considered is the option to retreat. You must give your attacker/burglar this. That's where Tony Bennett came unstuck. He shot a burglar while he was running away, which although I believe no right minded person would feel was wrong, he still broke the law.
A weapon, ie. something designed for this purpose, could still legally be used for self defence. An example could be if you were being attacked and picked up your grandads commando knife from the war, which was on display on your mantlepiece.
Guns, I believe, even if legally owned are not allowed to be used as self defence, no matter what the circumstances are.
Also what must be considered is the option to retreat. You must give your attacker/burglar this. That's where Tony Bennett came unstuck. He shot a burglar while he was running away, which although I believe no right minded person would feel was wrong, he still broke the law.
Greendubber said:
skymaster said:
I think that in todays climate in Britain you have two options when being attacked or robbed:-
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
Thats not strictly true. 1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
Greendubber said:
skymaster said:
I think that in todays climate in Britain you have two options when being attacked or robbed:-
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
Thats not strictly true. 1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
skymaster said:
I think that in todays climate in Britain you have two options when being attacked or robbed:-
1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
3. After having opted for 2, dispose of the 'evidence' and pretend nothing happened....... 1. Lie down and take it, get beaten up and lose your property. Expect no justice to every be brought upon those that attacked you.
2. Defend yourself and your property then get arrested and charged for doing so, go through 100 times more stress than option one.
I know of very few people convicted of using too much force to defend the home. If you have a torch or even if you arm yourself with a baseball bat in your own home you commit no offence. Its only when you use unreasonable force upon the person.
For example you continue to strike them as they run off or as they lay upon the ground. I have attended numerous incidents of self defence and not yet arrested anyone. Most cases where there is an arrest and charge there are good grounds to do so based on level of violence. Even then its down to a jury to convict Thats a Jury made up of normal people like the person burgled.
Its in a absolute minority of cases that a householder who confronts a burglar and tackles them will face charge. They may have to be interviewed (and Im aware of some that have with some 'advice' about what sort of things we would say) or write a witness statement with some helpfull pointers but charged rarely, convicted not often and as I said there is normaly more to that case than is said in the press.
For example you continue to strike them as they run off or as they lay upon the ground. I have attended numerous incidents of self defence and not yet arrested anyone. Most cases where there is an arrest and charge there are good grounds to do so based on level of violence. Even then its down to a jury to convict Thats a Jury made up of normal people like the person burgled.
Its in a absolute minority of cases that a householder who confronts a burglar and tackles them will face charge. They may have to be interviewed (and Im aware of some that have with some 'advice' about what sort of things we would say) or write a witness statement with some helpfull pointers but charged rarely, convicted not often and as I said there is normaly more to that case than is said in the press.
you can not get in trouble if your dog attacks a burglar on your property provided that all entrances to the property have a warning sign clearly displayed, if you dont have warning a sign your dog could be put to sleep and you could be prosecuted, if somebody was to enter my property without my permission i would not hesitate in breaking their neck, my house is my castle(if only 3 bed terraced one) and i will defend it and its contents with whatever means i find nessecary, if anybodys planning on taking this stance with there own property try and befriend a pig farmer to facilitate easy disposal of the remains beforehand
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