Speeders DNA on database.............
Discussion
WTF? because all speeders (and litter louts) commit crimes tha DNA profiling is of use to solve? 
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...
Police want DNA from speeding drivers and litterbugs on database
Police are seeking powers to take DNA samples from suspects on the streets and for non-imprisonable offences such as speeding and dropping litter.
The demand for a huge expansion of powers to take DNA comes as a government watchdog announced the first public inquiry into the national DNA database.
There is growing concern among MPs and civil liberties groups about the number of children under 10 and young black men on the database — the biggest in the world. But a number of police forces in England and Wales are backing proposals that would add millions more samples to it.
The Association of Chief Police Officers gave a warning, however, that allowing police to take samples for non-recordable offences — crimes for which offenders cannot be imprisoned — might be perceived as indicative of “the increasing criminalisation of the generally law-abiding public”.
Support for an extension of police powers to take samples was disclosed yesterday in responses to a Home Office consultation paper that was published this year. “A number of respondents welcomed the ability to reduce the threshold, including to the extent of allowing for the taking of fingerprints, DNA and footwear impressions for non-recordable offen-ces for the purpose of offender identi-fication and searching databases,” said a Home Office paper summarising responses to the consultation.
It added: “The second issue relates to the taking of fingerprints, photographs and samples on the street. This was welcomed at an operational level as a means of increasing officer confidence in knowing who they are dealing with and enabling them to deal more effectively with the incident at the scene.”
Kath Mashiter, of Lancashire police, and Brian Pincher, of Norfolk police, called for officers to be allowed to take DNA and fingerprints from suspects outside the custody environment.
Inspector Thomas Huntley, of the Ministry of Defence police, supported “the taking of fingerprints, DNA and footwear impressions for non-recordable offences for the purpose of the offender identification and searching the database”.
Mr Huntley added: “While the increase of suspects on the database will lead to an increased cost, this should be considered as preferential to allowing a serious offender to walk from custody following arrest for a non-recordable offence.”
There are almost four million samples on the database, including more than 100 of children aged under 10, even though they have not attained the age of criminal responsibility. A further 883,888 records of children aged between 10 and 17, and 46 records of people aged over 90, are held on the database, which cost more than £300 million.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal, QC, the Attorney-General, admitted when she was a Home Office minister that three quarters of the young black male population would soon be on the DNA database.
The Human Genetics Commission, the Government’s independent DNA watchdog, yesterday announced the first public inquiry into the database. Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws, QC, chairwoman of the commission, said: “The police in England and Wales have powers, unrivalled internation- ally, to take a DNA sample from any arrested individual, without their consent. We want to hear the public’s views on whether storing the DNA profiles of victims and suspects who are later not charged or acquitted is justified by the need to fight crime.”
Lady Kennedy added: “The database has a preponderance of young men, with a third of black males currently on it. And anyone on it is there for life. On the other hand, a steadily increasing number of serious crimes, including murders and rapes, are being solved and criminals brought to book with its help. These are issues that need to be considered and we need to know what the public think.”
David Davis, the Shadow Home Secretary, said last night: “It is inconceivable that the powers of the police could be extended without a serious and substantive debate in Parliament. They have already encroached on people’s privacy without proper debate on this matter and this can go no further.”
A Home Office spokesman said: “The DNA database has revolutionised the way the police can protect the public through identifying offenders and securing more convictions.
“The consultation is about maximising police efficiency and ensuring that appropriate and effective safeguards are in place. No decisions have yet been made and any detailed proposals will be subject to a further public consultation next year.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/art...
Police want DNA from speeding drivers and litterbugs on database
Police are seeking powers to take DNA samples from suspects on the streets and for non-imprisonable offences such as speeding and dropping litter.
The demand for a huge expansion of powers to take DNA comes as a government watchdog announced the first public inquiry into the national DNA database.
There is growing concern among MPs and civil liberties groups about the number of children under 10 and young black men on the database — the biggest in the world. But a number of police forces in England and Wales are backing proposals that would add millions more samples to it.
The Association of Chief Police Officers gave a warning, however, that allowing police to take samples for non-recordable offences — crimes for which offenders cannot be imprisoned — might be perceived as indicative of “the increasing criminalisation of the generally law-abiding public”.
Support for an extension of police powers to take samples was disclosed yesterday in responses to a Home Office consultation paper that was published this year. “A number of respondents welcomed the ability to reduce the threshold, including to the extent of allowing for the taking of fingerprints, DNA and footwear impressions for non-recordable offen-ces for the purpose of offender identi-fication and searching databases,” said a Home Office paper summarising responses to the consultation.
It added: “The second issue relates to the taking of fingerprints, photographs and samples on the street. This was welcomed at an operational level as a means of increasing officer confidence in knowing who they are dealing with and enabling them to deal more effectively with the incident at the scene.”
Kath Mashiter, of Lancashire police, and Brian Pincher, of Norfolk police, called for officers to be allowed to take DNA and fingerprints from suspects outside the custody environment.
Inspector Thomas Huntley, of the Ministry of Defence police, supported “the taking of fingerprints, DNA and footwear impressions for non-recordable offences for the purpose of the offender identification and searching the database”.
Mr Huntley added: “While the increase of suspects on the database will lead to an increased cost, this should be considered as preferential to allowing a serious offender to walk from custody following arrest for a non-recordable offence.”
There are almost four million samples on the database, including more than 100 of children aged under 10, even though they have not attained the age of criminal responsibility. A further 883,888 records of children aged between 10 and 17, and 46 records of people aged over 90, are held on the database, which cost more than £300 million.
Baroness Scotland of Asthal, QC, the Attorney-General, admitted when she was a Home Office minister that three quarters of the young black male population would soon be on the DNA database.
The Human Genetics Commission, the Government’s independent DNA watchdog, yesterday announced the first public inquiry into the database. Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws, QC, chairwoman of the commission, said: “The police in England and Wales have powers, unrivalled internation- ally, to take a DNA sample from any arrested individual, without their consent. We want to hear the public’s views on whether storing the DNA profiles of victims and suspects who are later not charged or acquitted is justified by the need to fight crime.”
Lady Kennedy added: “The database has a preponderance of young men, with a third of black males currently on it. And anyone on it is there for life. On the other hand, a steadily increasing number of serious crimes, including murders and rapes, are being solved and criminals brought to book with its help. These are issues that need to be considered and we need to know what the public think.”
David Davis, the Shadow Home Secretary, said last night: “It is inconceivable that the powers of the police could be extended without a serious and substantive debate in Parliament. They have already encroached on people’s privacy without proper debate on this matter and this can go no further.”
A Home Office spokesman said: “The DNA database has revolutionised the way the police can protect the public through identifying offenders and securing more convictions.
“The consultation is about maximising police efficiency and ensuring that appropriate and effective safeguards are in place. No decisions have yet been made and any detailed proposals will be subject to a further public consultation next year.”
Contentious as it may sound, personally I have no qualms about adding my fingerprints/DNA/Photo to any Police database.
We hear how outrageous the mere thought of innocent parties having samples taken for virtually no reason, how it infringes Human Rights etc etc etc; my stance is, what if that sample was used to prove that someone arrested as being a perpetrator of some wrongdoing actually WASN'T the wrongdoer...
There must be oodles of unsolved crimes on the books where DNA and other evidence is present but because there are no samples that matches any current database, many are free to commit further crimes.
If by adding my details/DNA etc to a database helps narrow the odds of 'Mick the mad rapist' or 'Ron the rabid robber' getting away with their criminal acts count me in!
We hear how outrageous the mere thought of innocent parties having samples taken for virtually no reason, how it infringes Human Rights etc etc etc; my stance is, what if that sample was used to prove that someone arrested as being a perpetrator of some wrongdoing actually WASN'T the wrongdoer...
There must be oodles of unsolved crimes on the books where DNA and other evidence is present but because there are no samples that matches any current database, many are free to commit further crimes.
If by adding my details/DNA etc to a database helps narrow the odds of 'Mick the mad rapist' or 'Ron the rabid robber' getting away with their criminal acts count me in!
Has this country gone completly crazy??? Do the police think that they RUN the country??? will the Police new slogan be something from an Arnie film...
Blair may have left office, but his army are still in force, now run by guy called Browm, who, if we are not very careful, will lead the UK to war, just like an Austrian once did...
Mr F
Blair may have left office, but his army are still in force, now run by guy called Browm, who, if we are not very careful, will lead the UK to war, just like an Austrian once did...
Mr F
if you have a chanch of a dna match of 1 in a million
and you have 4 million people then
4 people will have a match
now i know these figures are imaginnary
but i like the system where the police do their job
find the suspect then confirm with DNA evidence
then i know the people in prison should be there
and you have 4 million people then
4 people will have a match
now i know these figures are imaginnary
but i like the system where the police do their job
find the suspect then confirm with DNA evidence
then i know the people in prison should be there
Love the comment
"A Home Office spokesman said: “The DNA database has revolutionised the way the police can protect the public through identifying offenders and securing more convictions."
Identifying offenders and more convictions means they have already failed to "protect" the public. I am really amused to see the motto's based on the US Police's "To Protect and Serve". Mostly they fail to Protect and as for "serve", that seems to apply to a minority who have the Chief Constable's ear. This leaves the decent BIB's waiting for retirement. Providing the Stress does not get to them first!
"A Home Office spokesman said: “The DNA database has revolutionised the way the police can protect the public through identifying offenders and securing more convictions."
Identifying offenders and more convictions means they have already failed to "protect" the public. I am really amused to see the motto's based on the US Police's "To Protect and Serve". Mostly they fail to Protect and as for "serve", that seems to apply to a minority who have the Chief Constable's ear. This leaves the decent BIB's waiting for retirement. Providing the Stress does not get to them first!
The article is written to get these reactions. Some of the quotes are a little out of context. Also big difference from taking prints to CONFIRM identity and to ADD to the database.
I don't want people added to the database for speeding. It would be on the whole pointless and criminalise as the ACPO quote says large parts of society.
This was a consultation doucment with individuals passing comment. Most of low rank or taken out of context probably. The article is designed to get the blood boiling.
With regards adding prints dna etc, thats part of the goverments drive to reduce the number of custody visits people have as they are trying to encourage officers to stay on the beat and deal on the street rather than a custody area. Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
I don't want people added to the database for speeding. It would be on the whole pointless and criminalise as the ACPO quote says large parts of society.
This was a consultation doucment with individuals passing comment. Most of low rank or taken out of context probably. The article is designed to get the blood boiling.
With regards adding prints dna etc, thats part of the goverments drive to reduce the number of custody visits people have as they are trying to encourage officers to stay on the beat and deal on the street rather than a custody area. Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
.... Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
..........Dear Mr Cray,please attend court xxx on xxx as we are hereby charging you with XXX
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
The above you typed out would be a summons.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
.... Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
..........Dear Mr Cray,please attend court xxx on xxx as we are hereby charging you with XXX
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
The above you typed out would be a summons.
Dear Mr Cray,you have been bailed to appear at xxx on xxx please attend
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
.... Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
..........Dear Mr Cray,please attend court xxx on xxx as we are hereby charging you with XXX
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
The above you typed out would be a summons.
Dear Mr Cray,you have been bailed to appear at xxx on xxx please attend
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
It would be Mr Cray you were arrested and bailed in relation to the offence of XXXX. The Cps have reached the decision in relation to this matter and as a result your charged with the following offence.
On XXX you sat and ate lots of cake as well as all the pies.
You are to attend XXX on XXX.
Dear Sir/ madam
Followd by a few weeks later..
Knock.. knock..
Mr Cray?
YES?
Mr Cray am arresting you for failing to attend court on xxx
Hope that helps?Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
.... Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
..........Dear Mr Cray,please attend court xxx on xxx as we are hereby charging you with XXX
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
The above you typed out would be a summons.
Dear Mr Cray,you have been bailed to appear at xxx on xxx please attend
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
It would be Mr Cray you were arrested and bailed in relation to the offence of XXXX. The Cps have reached the decision in relation to this matter and as a result your charged with the following offence.
On XXX you sat and ate lots of cake as well as all the pies.
You are to attend XXX on XXX.
Dear Sir/ madam
Followd by a few weeks later..
Knock.. knock..
Mr Cray?
YES?
Mr Cray am arresting you for failing to attend court on xxx
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
pies said:
Mr_annie_vxr said:
.... Its a reason why they want to be able to send charges by post.
..........Dear Mr Cray,please attend court xxx on xxx as we are hereby charging you with XXX
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
The above you typed out would be a summons.
Dear Mr Cray,you have been bailed to appear at xxx on xxx please attend
Dear sir/madam
offMr Cray
It would be Mr Cray you were arrested and bailed in relation to the offence of XXXX. The Cps have reached the decision in relation to this matter and as a result your charged with the following offence.
On XXX you sat and ate lots of cake as well as all the pies.
You are to attend XXX on XXX.
Dear Sir/ madam
Followd by a few weeks later..
Knock.. knock..
Mr Cray?
YES?
Mr Cray am arresting you for failing to attend court on xxx
FishFace said:
said:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal, QC, the Attorney-General, admitted when she was a Home Office minister that three quarters of the young black male population would soon be on the DNA database
Don't commit crime then. The MDP Inspector's comments are interesting as they hardly arrest anyone, and if they do they don't have a custody suite!
No wonder he wants to be able to take them in the street.
Slow day.
Edited by ukwill on Thursday 2nd August 17:28
FishFace said:
said:
Baroness Scotland of Asthal, QC, the Attorney-General, admitted when she was a Home Office minister that three quarters of the young black male population would soon be on the DNA database
Don't commit crime then. The MDP Inspector's comments are interesting as they hardly arrest anyone, and if they do they don't have a custody suite!
No wonder he wants to be able to take them in the street.
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