Not getting out of Plod's way?
Discussion
I know this has been discussed before but cant remember the outcome or the law! Help?
Was sitting at a set of lights on Gower St with a taxi beside me. Panda appears in the rear view mirror and approaches the two of us. I obviously hope he pulls up behind the taxi (we were still on a red) but he comes up behind me. Dont know if there are any Scameras about so I dont budge as to do so would have crossed the red. We had been there for a while before plod arrived so I guessed it would be any second now. Was about 5 secs.
Pulled away and moved aside so Plod could pass and he was shaking his head and mouth was going as if to his partner but aimed at me (he was looking my way).
Now I would always have moved ahead and made way for this guy in th past but since I read a couple of cases (2 or 3 I think) where people have beend Scamera'd or done for passing through a red, it is just not worth taking the chance IMHO.
He was pretty fed up with me and was not trying to hide it. I did gesture that the lights were red and apologised but that didnt help at all.
HAve I just been a knob or just too cautious and should I have let him go and taken his index down etc etc waiting for the inevitable NIP?
Was sitting at a set of lights on Gower St with a taxi beside me. Panda appears in the rear view mirror and approaches the two of us. I obviously hope he pulls up behind the taxi (we were still on a red) but he comes up behind me. Dont know if there are any Scameras about so I dont budge as to do so would have crossed the red. We had been there for a while before plod arrived so I guessed it would be any second now. Was about 5 secs.
Pulled away and moved aside so Plod could pass and he was shaking his head and mouth was going as if to his partner but aimed at me (he was looking my way).
Now I would always have moved ahead and made way for this guy in th past but since I read a couple of cases (2 or 3 I think) where people have beend Scamera'd or done for passing through a red, it is just not worth taking the chance IMHO.
He was pretty fed up with me and was not trying to hide it. I did gesture that the lights were red and apologised but that didnt help at all.
HAve I just been a knob or just too cautious and should I have let him go and taken his index down etc etc waiting for the inevitable NIP?
RaksP said:
Damn that’s some dodgy shit! Was there no way either of you could of moved to the left or right rather than forward so the po-po could squeeze through the middle?
I would like to hear the official line though!
FFS - I hope somebody bans you the next time you use "Po-Po"I would like to hear the official line though!
Anyway, I think we had the official line on this, that: -
- It is an offence to obstruct a police officer
- It is an offence to pass through a working red-light.
tigger1 said:
FFS - I hope somebody bans you the next time you use "Po-Po"
Po-po!!tigger1 said:
Anyway, I think we had the official line on this, that: -
So even if you had the po-po’s reg number etc you are still screwed!?? WTF?- It is an offence to obstruct a police officer
- It is an offence to pass through a working red-light.
What is the fine/ points for obstructing a police officer? I would take the option with less points!
Simple choice -- obstruction every time, my licence means too much to me. If I let him through, whatever emergency he might be attending is less important than me losing my livelihood and perhaps the roof from over my family's head. If they prosecuted I'd claim I hadn't seen him and the radio was too loud to hear the siren.
While we have imbeciles at CCTV and automatic prosecution devices, there is no alternative.
Obviously in the past I'd bend over backwards to help John Law but I'm afraid that the PTB have squandered my goodwill.
It's especially sad that they've paid this price whilst pursuing a strategy, if you can call it that, which was never going to save lives, hasn't saved lives and never will save lives.
SM
While we have imbeciles at CCTV and automatic prosecution devices, there is no alternative.
Obviously in the past I'd bend over backwards to help John Law but I'm afraid that the PTB have squandered my goodwill.
It's especially sad that they've paid this price whilst pursuing a strategy, if you can call it that, which was never going to save lives, hasn't saved lives and never will save lives.
SM
would i be correct in thinking that the former (obstructing a police officer) is a criminal offence, and the latter (passing a red light) is a motoring offence?
I think I'd take the former - at least I could plead not guilty (if the officer decided to nick me), whereas there's no argueing with a camera...
I think I'd take the former - at least I could plead not guilty (if the officer decided to nick me), whereas there's no argueing with a camera...
I spoke to the guys who manage the ATS Gatso's for all of West London a couple of months ago and they state that if it is obvious in the car in question is getting out of the way of an emergency vehicle then no action should be taken against that car - obviously so long as they aren't being stupid / using the opportunity the shoot though a red light .... as some people unfortunately seem to delight in, nearly causing accidents.
No emergency service driver wants you to go through a red light if dangerous but usually it is possible to pull to one side or the other to let the vehicle through. Rarely is it necessary to go through the whole junction. The picture, if even taken, should show odd movement and hopefully then the said emergency vehicle and all should make sense.
There are things about red light Gatso's that are different to what you would expect re when they will activate .... It was explained to me but I can't remember fully so won't try to explain. Suffice it to say that depending on where you are / how long red they may not go off.
Red light Gatso's are managed by the SCP's in London .... unlike bus lanes which I believe are managed by a local authority / TFL. It is not intended that assisting emergency service vehicles results in points ! If, though, you have the opportunity (as the said police/fire/Ambulance vehicle should be going slowly through a red light - subject to vision) then get their index number. If bothered about going through the red then pull over and make a note of the time, index, etc or send yourself a text message with the index on.
No emergency service driver wants you to go through a red light if dangerous but usually it is possible to pull to one side or the other to let the vehicle through. Rarely is it necessary to go through the whole junction. The picture, if even taken, should show odd movement and hopefully then the said emergency vehicle and all should make sense.
There are things about red light Gatso's that are different to what you would expect re when they will activate .... It was explained to me but I can't remember fully so won't try to explain. Suffice it to say that depending on where you are / how long red they may not go off.
Red light Gatso's are managed by the SCP's in London .... unlike bus lanes which I believe are managed by a local authority / TFL. It is not intended that assisting emergency service vehicles results in points ! If, though, you have the opportunity (as the said police/fire/Ambulance vehicle should be going slowly through a red light - subject to vision) then get their index number. If bothered about going through the red then pull over and make a note of the time, index, etc or send yourself a text message with the index on.
Kinky said:
This very question was asked in the latest IAM magazine. I'll go dig it out and post what it said.
But in a nutshell - don't move. Let them move around you.
So if you had an ambulance behind you, you would sit there for 5 minutes waiting for the lights to change?But in a nutshell - don't move. Let them move around you.
This country is FUBAR.
What ever happened to common sense laws - I don't believe anyone here would intentionally hold up the services if it wasn't for the fear of getting snapped by industrialised revenue creation devices.
Bing o said:
Kinky said:
This very question was asked in the latest IAM magazine. I'll go dig it out and post what it said.
But in a nutshell - don't move. Let them move around you.
So if you had an ambulance behind you, you would sit there for 5 minutes waiting for the lights to change?But in a nutshell - don't move. Let them move around you.
This country is FUBAR.
What ever happened to common sense laws - I don't believe anyone here would intentionally hold up the services if it wasn't for the fear of getting snapped by industrialised revenue creation devices.
Leading on from my, and others comments on common sense, where has it gone when they send 2 plod to caution "kids" chalking hop-scotch on the pavement, and 5 police cars to respond to some reporter who was lucky enough to have her back side pinched?
No need to respond this is getting off the subject, just me ranting after a glass of wine or two.
No need to respond this is getting off the subject, just me ranting after a glass of wine or two.
As mentioned above, here's what it says in this quarters "Advanced Driving" magazine - the quarterly magazine for members of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
And for legal copyright reference, it states on page 3 that I can reproduce this, for non-profit use, as long as I acknowledge the source as being "Advanced Driving" magazine - the quarterly magazine for members of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
Taken from page 30, Summer 2007 edition. Author: Peter Rodger, IAM Chief Examiner.
And for legal copyright reference, it states on page 3 that I can reproduce this, for non-profit use, as long as I acknowledge the source as being "Advanced Driving" magazine - the quarterly magazine for members of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
Taken from page 30, Summer 2007 edition. Author: Peter Rodger, IAM Chief Examiner.
Article said:
Emergency Vehicles
The issue of emergency vehicles and restrictions on what we (the public) can do to help them has reared its head again. There are some really basic answers, all of which rely on basic principles.
The emergency crew - from whichever service - want to get somewhere as quickly as they safely can. What they are seeking to do is maintain a good average speed. In order to achieve that they have some exemptions to bits of the law - speed limits, traffic lights, bus lanes and so on.
As members of the public we do not have those exemptions. There are cases of drivers being prosecuted for breaching the rules to help emergency vehicles - perhaps this wouldn't happen in an ideal world, but it does in the real one, especially with the spread of camera enforcement.
So don't break the law to help - let the trained emergency driver sort that bit out. Don't panic - find the source of the noise, work out where it wants to go, then make it clear what you are doing to help.
Use the indicators, turn the wheels in, or give other similiar signals where appropriate - they help. What does not help, but actually hinders is stopping opposite an island, or just before a bend without enough vision for the overtake, or at some other point where your vehicle actually becomes the problem.
So stay legal, don's panic, think about where to stop or slow down so that passing is easy. Having done all that, check before moving out again. Some calls will generate more than one emergency vehicle, and they can end up travelling together.
Therefore, look for the following one. (Having done ambulance escorts in a police car I know first-hand that the tendancy for drivers to pull back out after the first set of sirens has gone past is strong).
KThe issue of emergency vehicles and restrictions on what we (the public) can do to help them has reared its head again. There are some really basic answers, all of which rely on basic principles.
The emergency crew - from whichever service - want to get somewhere as quickly as they safely can. What they are seeking to do is maintain a good average speed. In order to achieve that they have some exemptions to bits of the law - speed limits, traffic lights, bus lanes and so on.
As members of the public we do not have those exemptions. There are cases of drivers being prosecuted for breaching the rules to help emergency vehicles - perhaps this wouldn't happen in an ideal world, but it does in the real one, especially with the spread of camera enforcement.
So don't break the law to help - let the trained emergency driver sort that bit out. Don't panic - find the source of the noise, work out where it wants to go, then make it clear what you are doing to help.
Use the indicators, turn the wheels in, or give other similiar signals where appropriate - they help. What does not help, but actually hinders is stopping opposite an island, or just before a bend without enough vision for the overtake, or at some other point where your vehicle actually becomes the problem.
So stay legal, don's panic, think about where to stop or slow down so that passing is easy. Having done all that, check before moving out again. Some calls will generate more than one emergency vehicle, and they can end up travelling together.
Therefore, look for the following one. (Having done ambulance escorts in a police car I know first-hand that the tendancy for drivers to pull back out after the first set of sirens has gone past is strong).
Its quite simple, the plod drivers are trained to drive outwith the confines and directions of road traffic signals, they are trained and tested to ensure that they through experience can negotiate a variety of areas with reasonable safety. They will be experienced not only in speed but how to negotiate obstacles at speed. Also it is of upmost importance as they have the blue lights, that warns other drivers of an emergency vehicle coming such that they can take reasonable action to let it past or at least observe and be aware not to hinder the emergency vehicle. They have blue lights and a siren so if they go through a red light other drivers will hear and take action to the effect i have already discussed.
If you suddenly pull out, through a stop light, then you are comitting an offence and the danger is greater as you provide no warning. My advice is if you can get out the way do it, if you can do anything that will ease their progress then do it however do not do anything that would constitute a motoring/criminal offence.
If they are behind you in a situation like that then stay put, they will find a way around you, pull to the left a little to make their overtake easier but dont jump a light. Its their responsibility to navigate the situation, You are responsible if you jump a red light.
If you suddenly pull out, through a stop light, then you are comitting an offence and the danger is greater as you provide no warning. My advice is if you can get out the way do it, if you can do anything that will ease their progress then do it however do not do anything that would constitute a motoring/criminal offence.
If they are behind you in a situation like that then stay put, they will find a way around you, pull to the left a little to make their overtake easier but dont jump a light. Its their responsibility to navigate the situation, You are responsible if you jump a red light.
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