BIB attitude regarding alleged red light jump
Discussion
To cut a long story short a BIB in a marked Octavia pulled me the other day for allegedly jumping a red light. What makes me post this story is his attitude about the whole thing, because I did nothing wrong!!
There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
At least the thread isn't an excuse for a rerun of justinp1's delightful story.
We have a set of lights exactly like this. Junction A456 and B4187 in West Hagley Worcs map link
No everything on red phasing at all, plus the stop line from B4187 is well set back. Thus lights on A456 are well green and vehicles still crossing middle of A456.
If travelling eastbound on A456 it is possible, but only just, to see reflection of lights in TL shrouds and see that actually no one has crossed actually on red, even if fairly late on amber which is still technically dodgy depending upon circs. However when travelling westbound on A456 it can be impossible to see the reflection.
Having said all that the lights up the road jn A456 and A491 Stourbridge road are a bugger for people jumping the red out of the A491. Mind you not as bad as central Brum where it appears that TL sequence means
Amber: boot it and slide through
Red: First bloke: 'well its only a little bit red, keep foot in bucket'
Second Bloke thinks, "well he went through and there is an all red bit isn't there?"
Third Bloke thinks: "Well they both went through so maybe red lights are optional in Britain, just like Mumbai"
Fourth Bloke thinks, "Tally ho, oh shit, may it isn't that advisable to drive like in downtown Ankara then"
grrrrr
We have a set of lights exactly like this. Junction A456 and B4187 in West Hagley Worcs map link
No everything on red phasing at all, plus the stop line from B4187 is well set back. Thus lights on A456 are well green and vehicles still crossing middle of A456.
If travelling eastbound on A456 it is possible, but only just, to see reflection of lights in TL shrouds and see that actually no one has crossed actually on red, even if fairly late on amber which is still technically dodgy depending upon circs. However when travelling westbound on A456 it can be impossible to see the reflection.
Having said all that the lights up the road jn A456 and A491 Stourbridge road are a bugger for people jumping the red out of the A491. Mind you not as bad as central Brum where it appears that TL sequence means
Amber: boot it and slide through
Red: First bloke: 'well its only a little bit red, keep foot in bucket'
Second Bloke thinks, "well he went through and there is an all red bit isn't there?"
Third Bloke thinks: "Well they both went through so maybe red lights are optional in Britain, just like Mumbai"
Fourth Bloke thinks, "Tally ho, oh shit, may it isn't that advisable to drive like in downtown Ankara then"
grrrrr
Holuy Murphy Fif
Them drivers you mention in your final para ^^^^^^^
they must have relatives here in my town. I have to cross a T junction (on foot) to get my daily paper and I see it EVERY DAY.
Lights to amber then red and they still floor it into the junction. The bellow of an offended dvd does nowt to desist.
dvd
Them drivers you mention in your final para ^^^^^^^
they must have relatives here in my town. I have to cross a T junction (on foot) to get my daily paper and I see it EVERY DAY.
Lights to amber then red and they still floor it into the junction. The bellow of an offended dvd does nowt to desist.
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:
Holuy Murphy Fif
Them drivers you mention in your final para ^^^^^^^
they must have relatives here in my town. I have to cross a T junction (on foot) to get my daily paper and I see it EVERY DAY.
Lights to amber then red and they still floor it into the junction. The bellow of an offended dvd does nowt to desist.
dvd
Just carry a shotgun dvd, works fine in Nottingham.Them drivers you mention in your final para ^^^^^^^
they must have relatives here in my town. I have to cross a T junction (on foot) to get my daily paper and I see it EVERY DAY.
Lights to amber then red and they still floor it into the junction. The bellow of an offended dvd does nowt to desist.
dvd
I got done for traffic light jumping once, yeears ago now.
I was 5 yards from the white line, doing over 35 hoping to catch the green, but it went amber, too late to brake so i accelerate over the lights. One car pulls out behind me... 2nd car pulls out behind that one, then over takes with blue flashy lights and sirens... Doh!
I pull into a car park just up the road, turn ignition off and get out of the car. Only a short while before I had fitted a new radio, wired direct to the battery so that it stayed on when I took the keys out... oh boy
I can't recall the name of the song, but it was by Meatloaf and contained the lyrics "I wanna go on the red I wanna go on the green, I wanna go on the colours that I see in between..."
Engaging panic mode... Panic mode engaged... ARRRGHH!!! Dive into car window and turn stereo off, the copper didnt make an issue of it cos he could tell by the horror on my face that it was coincidental.
"Blah blah blah ... 3 points and fine.. blah blah jumping red light..."
I said that I didnt mean to cause trouble, but I had to say that the light was on orange, not red.
"Yeah... but it wasn't green was it?"
It's a fair cop! And he was a fair cop, unlike his baby-faced partner who kept asking 'what warp factor were you doing SONNY?!'
Eventually the older cop told him to go sit in the car, which he did, looking much like a child who'd been told off.
I was 5 yards from the white line, doing over 35 hoping to catch the green, but it went amber, too late to brake so i accelerate over the lights. One car pulls out behind me... 2nd car pulls out behind that one, then over takes with blue flashy lights and sirens... Doh!
I pull into a car park just up the road, turn ignition off and get out of the car. Only a short while before I had fitted a new radio, wired direct to the battery so that it stayed on when I took the keys out... oh boy
I can't recall the name of the song, but it was by Meatloaf and contained the lyrics "I wanna go on the red I wanna go on the green, I wanna go on the colours that I see in between..."
Engaging panic mode... Panic mode engaged... ARRRGHH!!! Dive into car window and turn stereo off, the copper didnt make an issue of it cos he could tell by the horror on my face that it was coincidental.
"Blah blah blah ... 3 points and fine.. blah blah jumping red light..."
I said that I didnt mean to cause trouble, but I had to say that the light was on orange, not red.
"Yeah... but it wasn't green was it?"
It's a fair cop! And he was a fair cop, unlike his baby-faced partner who kept asking 'what warp factor were you doing SONNY?!'
Eventually the older cop told him to go sit in the car, which he did, looking much like a child who'd been told off.
Once again, remember there are two sides to every story and yours sounds a little odd.
I don't doubt that the phasing sounds like it is sh1te so do follow up with the council.
But, you said, "I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red."
So the lights were green when you crossed the line. Fair enough.
Then when addressing the officer you say, "the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light." OK so now the light is amber when you are crossing the line? (Not sure, I can't tell from the tenses.)
You confirm, "No i didn't, it was amber as I went through." OK so now it was definitely amber when you crossed the line. I wonder if he was confused by your first comment and thought you were changing your story, perhaps he was having a bad day, who knows.
Remember amber means stop unless you have already crossed the line or if pulling up would cause an accident.
Benefit of the doubt here and from your first description it sounds like you had already crossed the line when it turned amber.
So what you should have said was "it was green when I crossed the line, but turned amber very shortly afterward, the phasing is bad, it was the first time I had driven the junction and next time I will know to be even more ready to pull up given there is so little time to cross the junction."
Or perhaps, "yes officer, no officer, I certainly won't be amber gambling here again, let alone in front of a marked car, when there is slowing traffic ahead of me that may cause me to be caught in the middle of a junction. Sorry. [under-breath] Can I buy you a donut to make amends? {/under-breath]"
I don't doubt that the phasing sounds like it is sh1te so do follow up with the council.
But, you said, "I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red."
So the lights were green when you crossed the line. Fair enough.
Then when addressing the officer you say, "the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light." OK so now the light is amber when you are crossing the line? (Not sure, I can't tell from the tenses.)
You confirm, "No i didn't, it was amber as I went through." OK so now it was definitely amber when you crossed the line. I wonder if he was confused by your first comment and thought you were changing your story, perhaps he was having a bad day, who knows.
Remember amber means stop unless you have already crossed the line or if pulling up would cause an accident.
Benefit of the doubt here and from your first description it sounds like you had already crossed the line when it turned amber.
So what you should have said was "it was green when I crossed the line, but turned amber very shortly afterward, the phasing is bad, it was the first time I had driven the junction and next time I will know to be even more ready to pull up given there is so little time to cross the junction."
Or perhaps, "yes officer, no officer, I certainly won't be amber gambling here again, let alone in front of a marked car, when there is slowing traffic ahead of me that may cause me to be caught in the middle of a junction. Sorry. [under-breath] Can I buy you a donut to make amends? {/under-breath]"
Conian said:
It's a fair cop! And he was a fair cop, unlike his baby-faced partner who kept asking 'what warp factor were you doing SONNY?!'
Eventually the older cop told him to go sit in the car, which he did, looking much like a child who'd been told off.
Eventually the older cop told him to go sit in the car, which he did, looking much like a child who'd been told off.
I think you have to be over a certain age, and definitely the older of a double-crew, to pull off "son", "sonny", and the like. 
Flat in Fifth said:
At least the thread isn't an excuse for a rerun of justinp1's delightful story...
Thank God!I dunno if tongue is in cheek but the circumstances are almost identical to mine!
At least the OP wont have to go to court to prove himself, though it is interesting that it does seem that such junctions seem to give trouble to perhaps some less experienced BiB?
JustinP1 said:
Flat in Fifth said:
At least the thread isn't an excuse for a rerun of justinp1's delightful story...
Thank God!I dunno if tongue is in cheek but the circumstances are almost identical to mine!
At least the OP wont have to go to court to prove himself, though it is interesting that it does seem that such junctions seem to give trouble to perhaps some less experienced BiB?
The junction I mentioned (Hagley) is typical of the sort of place where if not watching carefully you think someone has crashed the red, when in fact on close examination they have crossed the junction but not the stop line on red. But v easy for someone to make an assertion that red light ignored and to be 100% convinced they are telling the truth.
and a comment to a wider audience, yes before someone mentions it I do know what amber means, thanks.
funkyrobot said:
To cut a long story short a BIB in a marked Octavia pulled me the other day for allegedly jumping a red light. What makes me post this story is his attitude about the whole thing, because I did nothing wrong!!
There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
Funkiest Robotic Liebchen There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
You perhaps come across PC Pee Cee Jobsworthy
Sister-in-law. She teach in Bolton. (why we know so much of that town
She Mad Doc's young sisters (his youngest sisters are identical twins They both teachers) Like all of us.. they keenest on their driving
I think healthiest competition on how to be the safest of us all But Jazz.. she return home. She approach queuing traffic at Moses Gate after leaving A666 St Peter's Way (once 70 mph .. now 50 mph. No incidents other than suicides from bridges
but has scams to enforce ) Anyway .. she in standing traffic at the lights which are "quicky change" in sequence. She parallel to cop car. Lights change to green. Two car go through on green. One go on amber as he accelerating. They change red. Jazz stop. Police car go through the red to pull up driver who go through on amber. It create hazard beyond those lights as result .. with less car able to get through these nonsense set lights. Jazz tell me she do nothing for hapless driver . but she write stroppiest letter to council und press und police. These lights had better timing sequence after that. We never ever know what happen to that driver though
7db said:
Flat in Fifth said:
At least the thread isn't an excuse for a rerun of justinp1's delightful story...
Beat me to it...Perhaps the OPs best defence would have been that the officer -- sitting where he could see the green light was not in a position to see the red light and line...
Then you could follow it up with the old saying "ASSUME makes an ASS out of U and ME..."
Though I may not recommend it, despite it being very true.
You should not have crossed the line unless there was room to clear the junction.
From the Highway code:
152: You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36
(My emphasis)
You may not have actually jumped the lights but you were not driving according to the highway code.
From the Highway code:
152: You MUST NOT move forward over the white line when the red light is showing. Only go forward when the traffic lights are green if there is room for you to clear the junction safely or you are taking up a position to turn right. If the traffic lights are not working, proceed with caution. Allow cyclists and buses time and space to move off when the green signal shows.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 36
(My emphasis)
You may not have actually jumped the lights but you were not driving according to the highway code.
funkyrobot said:
To cut a long story short a BIB in a marked Octavia pulled me the other day for allegedly jumping a red light. What makes me post this story is his attitude about the whole thing, because I did nothing wrong!!
There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
Whats the long version of this story?.There is a T junction in my local town which is quite large. I was approaching the junction and indicating to turn right (if you can picture a T I was approaching the bottom of it) in a line of traffic. I get over the line and as i'm moving over to the right hand side of the road the lights go to amber then on to red. By the time i'm out of the junction (the line of traffic slowed down for some reason) the lights to my left and right are on green!
So I note this fact and think that the phasing must be all screwed up. Isn't there supposed to be a set amount of time for lights to change from red to one side to green on the other??
So i carry on on my merry way to another junction on the road. Next minute, flashing blue lights in my mirror and the BIB pulls up behind me. I wind my window down and he steps out of his car and walks over to my window.
He leans in and says:
'You do know that jumping a red light is a criminal offence sir?'
'It is indeed officer.' I reply, thinking what on earth is he on about.
'Well you jumped that red light back there and you have committed an offence,' he says in an authorative tone.
'Well officer,' I reply, 'the light was actually just flicking to amber as I had crossed the line actually, therefore I didn't jump the light.'
At this point his face turns a slight haze of red and his tone steps up with more anger behind it.
'Well that isn't what I saw is it, you jumped the light.'
'No i didn't, it was amber as I went through.'
'Well from what I could see you went through the junction when the light on my side was green.' He replies, getting more stressed out.
'I'm sorry officer but i'm telling you it was green then amber, maybe the phasing.....'
'All I am saying is don't do it again, right!!' He states rather huffidly.
Then he storms off back to his car and slams his door.
I sit in the car thinking whether this was worth pursuing with him or not. In the end I decide to drive on home and leave it as it stands.
He follows me all the way home until I park up.
Its nice to see the attitude being portrayed by this BIB is so welcoming and public serving in nature.
Since this happened I have been back to the junction and checked the phasing, which is totally screwed up! The lights change to red on one side as the lights turn green on the other. I have reported this to the local police station and also mentioned the attitude of the BIB. This was all done 2 weeks ago nearly.
But guess what, I checked the phasing today and its still screwed up.
Any ideas where I go from here? council offices next???
Thanks all!
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