Freedom of Infomration Act - speeding offence video?

[cbruff]

Hi,

I have just received an NIP for speeding. I am currntly compiling a letter outlining my concerns with the accuracy of the LTI 20:20 cameras.

I would like to view the full video of the alleged offence, but realise that the authorities don't like to release it. Can I obtain the full video and other relevant information under the Freedom of Information Act?

All help is greatly appreciated.

Chris

[davido140]

There was/is a VERY dedicated chap who has tried and failed to do exactly what you are intending to do. Im sure someone will be along very shortly with the thread and his website.

Good luck.

[cbruff]

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

[vonhosen]

cbruff said:

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

It's possible you could get the video, whether it's likely or not is another matter. FOIA isn't what it's about though.

For a start you aren't going to get it following your reply to the NIP/172. You are going to have to plead not guilty, you are going to have to get full disclosure & if it isn't released to you, you are going to have to convince a court that it must be given to you.

At this stage you have only got an open door, there is a long & winding road ahead that may or may not lead to where you want to go.

Have a read of Peter's tale.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 10:00

[Jules360]

vonhosen said:

cbruff said:

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

It's possible you could get the video, whether it's likely or not is another matter. FOIA isn't what it's about though.

For a start you aren't going to get it following your reply to the NIP/172. You are going to have to plead not guilty, you are going to have to get full disclosure & if it isn't released to you, you are going to have to convince a court that it must be given to you.

At this stage you have only got an open door, there is a long & winding road ahead that may or may not lead to where you want to go.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:52

Guilty until proven innocent. Lovely being a motorist who taxes, MOTs and insures their car, isn't it !!

[vonhosen]

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

cbruff said:

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

It's possible you could get the video, whether it's likely or not is another matter. FOIA isn't what it's about though.

For a start you aren't going to get it following your reply to the NIP/172. You are going to have to plead not guilty, you are going to have to get full disclosure & if it isn't released to you, you are going to have to convince a court that it must be given to you.

At this stage you have only got an open door, there is a long & winding road ahead that may or may not lead to where you want to go.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:52

Guilty until proven innocent. Lovely being a motorist who taxes, MOTs and insures their car, isn't it !!

No you aren't guilty, you are presumed innocent by the court, but you are going to have to successfully counter the prosecution case if they are to acquit & that will require some work on your part.

[cbruff]

Yeah, having read the information on this forum and other websites, I have realised that I may have to go to court. Whether or not I will do this I don't know. I want to on principal, but in practice I am not sure. I will see if I get a response from my scathing letter (probably not), and take it from there.

Cheers

[Jules360]

vonhosen said:

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

cbruff said:

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

It's possible you could get the video, whether it's likely or not is another matter. FOIA isn't what it's about though.

For a start you aren't going to get it following your reply to the NIP/172. You are going to have to plead not guilty, you are going to have to get full disclosure & if it isn't released to you, you are going to have to convince a court that it must be given to you.

At this stage you have only got an open door, there is a long & winding road ahead that may or may not lead to where you want to go.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:52

Guilty until proven innocent. Lovely being a motorist who taxes, MOTs and insures their car, isn't it !!

No you aren't guilty, you are presumed innocent by the court, but you are going to have to successfully counter the prosecution case if they are to acquit & that will require some work on your part.

How would he be proven guilty? Where is the evidence ?

[Bing o]

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

[tigger1]

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

If you murdered somebody you would know you were guilty...if you are alleged to have been speeding, it would be nice to see the evidence so that you have the opportunity to say "yes, I can see that I was speeding" - rather than being forced to put up your hands and say "well, you say I was so I must have been", or go to court and risk a much larger fine even if you plead guilty as early as possible.

[vonhosen]

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

cbruff said:

Thanks for the reply, there seem to be a lot of very knowledgeable people on here - so I am hopeful that somebody knows whether it's possible. Cheers,

Chris

It's possible you could get the video, whether it's likely or not is another matter. FOIA isn't what it's about though.

For a start you aren't going to get it following your reply to the NIP/172. You are going to have to plead not guilty, you are going to have to get full disclosure & if it isn't released to you, you are going to have to convince a court that it must be given to you.

At this stage you have only got an open door, there is a long & winding road ahead that may or may not lead to where you want to go.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 09:52

Guilty until proven innocent. Lovely being a motorist who taxes, MOTs and insures their car, isn't it !!

No you aren't guilty, you are presumed innocent by the court, but you are going to have to successfully counter the prosecution case if they are to acquit & that will require some work on your part.

How would he be proven guilty? Where is the evidence ?

It's up to the prosecution to prove the case, they have a variety of ways they can do that. They present their evidence to the court, no evidence no case.

[vonhosen]

tigger1 said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

If you murdered somebody you would know you were guilty...if you are alleged to have been speeding, it would be nice to see the evidence so that you have the opportunity to say "yes, I can see that I was speeding" - rather than being forced to put up your hands and say "well, you say I was so I must have been", or go to court and risk a much larger fine even if you plead guilty as early as possible.

You don't have to accept the FPN, it's a conditional offer. An offer you should only accept where you are satisfied that you committed the offence.

[Bing o]

Bing o said:

If I was accused of murdering someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

[vonhosen]

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

You won't get a conditional offer for murder.
You don't get full disclosure until you plead not guilty & submit a defence statement. There is primary disclosure then secondary. Secondary can be considered full.

Edited by vonhosen on Friday 24th August 11:31

[Jules360]

vonhosen said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

You won't get a conditional offer for murder.
You don't get full disclosure until you plead not guilty. There is primary disclosure then secondary. Secondary is full.

Don't split hairs... in the speeding case you are asked to plead without ANY evidence.

[vonhosen]

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

You won't get a conditional offer for murder.
You don't get full disclosure until you plead not guilty. There is primary disclosure then secondary. Secondary is full.

Don't split hairs... in the speeding case you are asked to plead without ANY evidence.

You are given a conditional offer, you do not have to accept it.
You should only where you agree & admit the offence.

[Jules360]

vonhosen said:

Jules360 said:

vonhosen said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

You won't get a conditional offer for murder.
You don't get full disclosure until you plead not guilty. There is primary disclosure then secondary. Secondary is full.

Don't split hairs... in the speeding case you are asked to plead without ANY evidence.

You are given a conditional offer, you do not have to accept it.
You should only where you agree & admit the offence.

And by your own admission, that is a long and arduous process... which i am expected to undergo without seeing any evidence of what i am supposed to have done ? If that's the law, then fair enough, but anyone with an ounce of common sense will see it's hardly the principle of innocent until proven guilty.

[tigger1]

vonhosen said:

tigger1 said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

If you murdered somebody you would know you were guilty...if you are alleged to have been speeding, it would be nice to see the evidence so that you have the opportunity to say "yes, I can see that I was speeding" - rather than being forced to put up your hands and say "well, you say I was so I must have been", or go to court and risk a much larger fine even if you plead guilty as early as possible.

You don't have to accept the FPN, it's a conditional offer. An offer you should only accept where you are satisfied that you committed the offence.

Ermm...yes, my point exactly - that with the alleged speeding offence you usually end up with a much higher fine by asking to see the evidence (ie going to court to be PROVEN) guilty rather than admitting to it without knowing that you were actually speeding.

The current regime - being allowed to give larger fines because people have the nerve to go to court as a means to discouraging people from trying to see the evidence is wrong. As far as policing speed on the roads go, we are now in the realms of being ruled by Gestapo*

* Hopefully you realise that I'm referring to SCPs etc

[vonhosen]

tigger1 said:

vonhosen said:

tigger1 said:

Bing o said:

If I murdered someone, would I have full access to the evidence BEFORE I pleaded guilty/not guilty?

If you murdered somebody you would know you were guilty...if you are alleged to have been speeding, it would be nice to see the evidence so that you have the opportunity to say "yes, I can see that I was speeding" - rather than being forced to put up your hands and say "well, you say I was so I must have been", or go to court and risk a much larger fine even if you plead guilty as early as possible.

You don't have to accept the FPN, it's a conditional offer. An offer you should only accept where you are satisfied that you committed the offence.

Ermm...yes, my point exactly - that with the alleged speeding offence you usually end up with a much higher fine by asking to see the evidence (ie going to court to be PROVEN) guilty rather than admitting to it without knowing that you were actually speeding.

The current regime - being allowed to give larger fines because people have the nerve to go to court as a means to discouraging people from trying to see the evidence is wrong. As far as policing speed on the roads go, we are now in the realms of being ruled by Gestapo*

* Hopefully you realise that I'm referring to SCPs etc

It's not a higher fine for going to court. The court is the standard.
With FPNs it's a reduction because of costs saved, in cases where you know you are guilty & plead so at an early stage.

[Jules360]

[quote=vonhosen
It's not a higher fine for going to court. The court is the standard.
With FPNs it's a reduction because of costs saved, in cases where you know you are guilty & plead so at an early stage.
[/quote]

Good lord !! If i suggested grass was green, i suspect you would counter that it's actually blue, with a yellow tinge ...