Computer readable number plates
Discussion
I read somewhere on the web some months ago that certain characters on number plates were more difficult for computers to read than others. I'm just about to buy a new plate and I can't find the article I read.
Does anyone know whether this might be true? and if so which letters to go for, or is this just a stupid idea?
Does anyone know whether this might be true? and if so which letters to go for, or is this just a stupid idea?
A friend was working at TfL until recently and was involved on the technical side of the 'final solution'. Anyway, the technology used is pretty hard to fool - all this press about only 90% hit rate and 10% avoidance is pretty much correct, but this is HONEST rather than the rather unsupported claims of other rival solutions.... So yes you have a 90% chance of getting your number plate read using the auto-number-plate-recog system they use with TfL (which is based on the same system that the Police use).
So, to put things in perspective:
1) You can have different sized number plates (although they are supposed to be standard sizes, there is some variance and certainly on older plates)
2) Moving the plate to the side of the front or back wont work either - it supports cars like the Honda CRV (back) and Alfa 156 (front) so dont bother.
3) Spacing doesnt throw it either - it reads the font and not the spaces
4) Reflective plates dont work - it uses ambient light in the day, and image intesified at night (therefore no flashes etc)
5) Funny fonts are pretty much OK too - though anything with scrpt or crap like that will fool it
6) Bonnet mounted plates can be read too (this is why they are not at ground level but elevated!
So, basically you are stuffed - the reason for the 90% hit rate is that there may not be a decent gap between you and the car in front, poor weather or even dirt on the plate... so its realistic.
Can you do a non-readable plate? Probably, but the only way to do this would be to change the reflective properties of the plate itself - i.e. like an old LCD / TFT screen where you couldnt read it from an angle, but can read it straight on. Other than that - they are all old-wives tales and not based in truth....
Cheers,
Paul
So, to put things in perspective:
1) You can have different sized number plates (although they are supposed to be standard sizes, there is some variance and certainly on older plates)
2) Moving the plate to the side of the front or back wont work either - it supports cars like the Honda CRV (back) and Alfa 156 (front) so dont bother.
3) Spacing doesnt throw it either - it reads the font and not the spaces
4) Reflective plates dont work - it uses ambient light in the day, and image intesified at night (therefore no flashes etc)
5) Funny fonts are pretty much OK too - though anything with scrpt or crap like that will fool it
6) Bonnet mounted plates can be read too (this is why they are not at ground level but elevated!
So, basically you are stuffed - the reason for the 90% hit rate is that there may not be a decent gap between you and the car in front, poor weather or even dirt on the plate... so its realistic.
Can you do a non-readable plate? Probably, but the only way to do this would be to change the reflective properties of the plate itself - i.e. like an old LCD / TFT screen where you couldnt read it from an angle, but can read it straight on. Other than that - they are all old-wives tales and not based in truth....
Cheers,
Paul
deltaf said: There IS another way. I cant tell you how it will work,secrets and all that bollox, but i can tell you this: I dont care WHAT system they put up against it, not ONE of their speed cameras anywhere will be able to read it.
If i told you that from the original idea i had a while back, that ive come up with a LEGAL way to defeat ALL known camera systems, youd say a) liar(lol) or b) Nutter and liar..(lmao).
However, its quite possible to defeat them all, and i will try my very best to get it to a prototype stage in order to demo it, to rapturous applause from Pher's the world over.
The very technology theyre using is fundamentally flawed. From the lowliest gatso(ya cant get lower) to advanced ANPR systems, i believe my system can beat em all, in fact, i know it can.
mmmmm I hope your right deltaf I really do However
If we can see it with the naked eye then so can a recognition system after all thats all our visual cortex brain type thing is doing.
p.s if you do manage to get it to work keep it low key only tell us
that way they the suits wont find out about and try to get around it.
pbrettle said:
2) Moving the plate to the side of the front or back wont work either - it supports cars like the Honda CRV (back) and Alfa 156 (front) so dont bother.
And what about the hot tip that was going around before the Congestion Tax was launched about sticking multiple number plates to your car, obviously only one with the correct number the others with with your name on (or whatever)?
What about trade plates, does it work on red/white plates?
Mr2Mike said: [quote
What about trade plates, does it work on red/white plates?
Please note!!everything I write below is probably complete rubish and should be taken as such
Ok there are various types of recognition software that I have worked with. Now I only know very little but here is a very simple explanation of how one works
Its called grey scale i.e colours will have a value
white=0
black =900
so red would be something like 300. depending on where you set the threshold on your software depends whether you will regognise red on a white background.
problems will arise with road grime etc so you will never get a reading of zero for white or 200 for yellow for example.
I imagine if they use something like this the recognition software will somehow determine how many pixels will be above the threshold and then some how compare that with its database to determine the character.
I had a thought that a number plate covered in a sheet of see-through LCD glass could be used to basically switch your number plate on and off. Of course you'd have to be aware that your number plate is about to be read then flick a switch to black out (or change) the number plate charactors. Obviously not legal, but still and idea!!
The LCD stuff I'm on about is like the stuff used in this here clock.......
I've just moved my front number plate down further and tilted it slighty toward the floor to decrease the number of times I get snapped by the CC cameras. At normal eye height it's readable, but at 15 ft up (about the height of the CC cameras in London) it's at a bit to much of an angle. I'll stick a picture up sometime.
The LCD stuff I'm on about is like the stuff used in this here clock.......
I've just moved my front number plate down further and tilted it slighty toward the floor to decrease the number of times I get snapped by the CC cameras. At normal eye height it's readable, but at 15 ft up (about the height of the CC cameras in London) it's at a bit to much of an angle. I'll stick a picture up sometime.
deltaf said: Wont fool a gatso tho will it? Mine will! And specs, anpr, even talivans.
I cant wait to give it a test run.
Have to get some more stuff sorted tho first.
The original idea has HAD to be modified to take on gatso and truvelos, and, as we all know, these work differently to all the others.
The problem is to disable its ability to view your numbers..... hard, very hard, but it can be done.
hey m8 your going to sell em or let a few in on the idear?
sounds intrestimg so far.
come on drop a hint
Deltaf appears to be fooling himself. And anumber of other people.
Nothing will fool the all seeing eye of an experienced copper, and he will eventually end up being prosecuted for the criminal offence directed at deceptive number plates.
Personally I think he's an attention seeker.
Why spend time and effort trying to avoid inevitable detection.
Don't show out in the first place and you won't come to notice.
Then we could get on with catching the people who need police attention.
Nothing will fool the all seeing eye of an experienced copper, and he will eventually end up being prosecuted for the criminal offence directed at deceptive number plates.
Personally I think he's an attention seeker.
Why spend time and effort trying to avoid inevitable detection.
Don't show out in the first place and you won't come to notice.
Then we could get on with catching the people who need police attention.
How can you even say something like that when deltaf has never even mentioned how his idea works. Why put a good man down for having an idea and having a go at making it real. Maybe his idea wont work, but at least he will have the satisfaction of giving it a go, which is more then can be said for all the people who live their lives day by day never risking anything or once sticking their neck out for the chance to create something great.
46TEE said: Deltaf appears to be fooling himself. And anumber of other people.
deltaf has my full support and thumbs up just for even trying!
>> Edited by Hates_ on Wednesday 11th June 22:46
Thank you sir, but as im sure youre aware, i can handle such criticsm quite easily.
There may well be some obscure reason why my little experiment wont be as fruitful as i expect, but it wont stop me from attempting to put a spanner in their works. Im neither fooling myself,others, or attention seeking.
I could quite easily get all the attention i require (and more)by going to the local cop shop and chucking something unpleasant in the door, so thats a stupid and uninformed statement for someone to make to me.
Anyway Hates, once again, thanks for the defence!
There may well be some obscure reason why my little experiment wont be as fruitful as i expect, but it wont stop me from attempting to put a spanner in their works. Im neither fooling myself,others, or attention seeking.
I could quite easily get all the attention i require (and more)by going to the local cop shop and chucking something unpleasant in the door, so thats a stupid and uninformed statement for someone to make to me.
Anyway Hates, once again, thanks for the defence!
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